How do you know you’re queer if you don’t even know that’s an option? It’s hard to imagine what we can’t see.

Julia takes us through confusing early fantasies to landing that first girl-kiss to realizing what it means to love people with vaginas in all their gender presentations. Now she wants to start exploring anal play.

Julia is a 27-year-old cisgender woman. She describes herself as white, queer, monogamous, and she doesn’t have kids. She still gets a regular period and describes her body as tall and thin.

Julia has a non-binary partner, so we get to talk about how she navigates her partner’s gender dysphoria.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT (CLICK TO OPEN)

LEAH: Welcome to Good Girls Talk About Sex. I am sex and intimacy coach, Leah Carey, and this is a place to share conversations with all sorts of women about their experience of sexuality. These are unfiltered conversations between adult women talking about sex. If anything about the previous sentence offends you, turn back now! And if you’re looking for a trigger warning, you’re not going to get it from me. I believe that you are stronger than the trauma you have experienced. I have faith in your ability to deal with things that upset you. Sound good? Let’s start the show!

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Hey, friends. I have to tell on myself and this is a little embarrassing. This episode has been sitting on my computer for a whole year. I don’t quite know what happened, but it was definitely not intentional. So, to Julia, first, I want to apologize to you for taking so long to get this episode out into the world and it’s a really interesting one because we cover some new territory that we haven’t talked about here before.

We’ve had several non-binary guests, but we’ve never talked with someone about being sexually involved with a non-binary person. Julia has a non-binary partner, so we get to talk about how she navigates her partner’s gender dysphoria. Julia is a 27-year-old cisgender woman. She describes herself as white, queer, monogamous, and she doesn’t have kids. She still gets a regular period and describes her body as tall and thin. I’m so pleased to introduce Julia!

Julia, welcome. I’m so excited to have this conversation with you. As you know, I love it when listeners get in touch and say, “I think I’d like to do an interview.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, I’m thrilled that you did that.

JULIA: Thank you. Yeah. As I said before, I’m really happy that you make that an option. It’s amazing, so thank you.

LEAH: Absolutely. It’s pretty much my favorite thing.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, Julia, let’s start where I start every interview. What is your first memory of sexual pleasure?

JULIA: I have two separate memories. One is around the first time that I masturbate and the other one is around some fantasies that I had when I was a kid. So, this was an embarrassing story for me for a while, but I had this large teddy bear and, at some point, I realized that if I rubbed against the leg of it, it felt good.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: So, I think I was probably 12, maybe 11 at that point. And yeah, I just did that for a while.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: It probably became your favorite teddy bear for a while?

JULIA: Yeah, absolutely.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Did you come to something that you would now recognize as an orgasm or was it just the worked up feeling that you had?

JULIA: Yeah, that’s a good question. I don’t think it was a full orgasm, but yeah, it was definitely good and something that I wanted to keep going back to.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. So, you said that you felt embarrassed about that for a long time. What about it was embarrassing to you?

JULIA: I think part of it was just that masturbation wasn’t really talked about in my friend groups or in my family. So, I was embarrassed about masturbation in general, and then it was also the innocence of a teddy bear.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: That also was embarrassing of like, “Oh my god. I can’t believe I used this childish item.”

LEAH: Yeah. So, you know as a listener to the podcast that you are far from alone in this experience.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Whether it was a teddy bear or just the sheets or blanket, a lot of kids found that part of their body and that kind of pleasure from those items that are related to childhood. And I can understand why that would be confusing for sure. So, you said you had a second memory as well.

JULIA: Yeah. And this is another memory because I don’t exactly remember which came first, the teddy bear or this, but I think mostly when I was in the shower as a young teen, I had these fantasies that were very straight fantasies which looking back now, knowing who I am, is interesting.

But I would just fantasize about a couple like a man and a woman having sex and I don’t really know how I was involved like if I was the woman in the fantasy or if I was witnessing it. But yeah, it was always for children. It was sex for procreation. But it brought me pleasure, so it’s a confusing memory.

But yeah, I would fantasize about them having sex and sometimes I would fantasize that they would have to do it quietly. And that was a turn-on for me as a young child. In that instance, I never had, again, what I would classify as a full orgasm, but it definitely brought me pleasure. And I extended those fantasies. I have this very vivid memory of skiing. I cross country ski. I did throughout my childhood and I just remember skiing this long trail with friends and family around me and just the lengths that I would go to have these really interesting fantasies.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: I’m very interested by this fantasy because you alluded to a couple things there. One is you now consider yourself queer, and we’ll get into that in a little bit, but that this was a straight fantasy, which is surprising or interesting given that you now consider yourself queer. And also, that it was for “baby-making.” And those two things, I think that with our early fantasies, one of two things can happen. We either fantasize firmly within our cultural narrative like, “Oh, okay. So, I understand that sex is for babies, so I’m going to fantasize about sex, which therefore means that it’s for babies.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And also, that if you primarily saw heterosexual couples around you, then it makes sense that that is what you would fantasize about. And then, at the other end of the spectrum, if there are people who see the cultural narrative around them and are like, “Wow, I don’t fit into that at all,” then they might start to create a fantasy life or indulge in a fantasy life that takes them very outside of that heteronormative baby-making culture. But it actually doesn’t surprise me at all that your fantasies would have mirrored the world that you saw around you. There was sexual energy inside you that wanted an outlet. And so, it took the outlet that it understood. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

JULIA: Thank you.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah, absolutely. So, I have one other curiosity. You said that when you fantasized about the couple, you weren’t sure if you were the woman or if you were watching from outside. Do you now have any interest in voyeurism?  Is that a turn-on for you?

JULIA: Oh, interesting. I’ve never really explored that. This is jumping ahead, but the one experience I do have with voyeurism that I’ve never connected to that experience or those fantasies, but I went on a trip with some friends in college and we went to Paris. And we had this really sweet little apartment that looked out over a courtyard. And I remember on our last day that we were there, we were packing up to leave. And we looked out the window and across the courtyard, there was this couple having sex and we watched that then all together.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: I’m very close to them, so it wasn’t an awkward thing. But it’s funny to think about it now. But yeah, I remember we watched them for probably five minutes just like, “Wow, this is wild.” And we were pretty sure that the man noticed, which honestly is a little bit weird. It’s not weird that he noticed. It seemed like he was more turned on by it, but mostly that I don’t know if his partner knew.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: So, that part makes me a little bit creeped out. But yeah, that’s the only experience. And I don’t know if I was actively turned on, but it definitely was something that was like, “Whoa.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. So, voyeurism is a kink that is actually one that I really enjoy. And as you noted, it is important that it be done consensually, so that everybody involved is aware of what’s going on. But exhibitionism is also a very common kink. And it sounds like probably in that situation, the man did enjoy exhibitionism because you said it seemed to turn him on that there was this group of people watching. Does that spark any interest for you?

JULIA: No, not at all.

LEAH: That’s clear.

JULIA: Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: That’s interesting. I’ve actually never heard of exhibitionism. Yeah, voyeurism isn’t something that I’ve had access to or felt comfortable exploring.

LEAH: Sure. So, I mentioned that it’s something that I enjoy and it’s something that I felt very embarrassed about for a long time because I didn’t know that there were ways to do that that were consensual. It felt like it was very unnatural for me to be interested in that. Now that I have experience of a community of people where that is actually a thing that some people are exhibitionists and they get their kink taken care of because they’re voyeurs and they get their kink taken care of because they’re exhibitionists. It all actually works. But yeah, for a long time, I thought that I was somehow very pervy.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And I’ve also discovered that I’m actually more interested in oral voyeurism, which is hearing people through the walls. I don’t actually need to see them doing the deed, but listening to people in my apartment building when the windows are opened and I get to hear people having sex, that’s a huge turn-on for me.

JULIA: Oh, cool.

LEAH: Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Yeah, that’s cool.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: All right. So, we’ve jumped all over the timeline.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Let’s go back. So, you’ve discovered that you can get pleasure from the leg of your teddy bear. You’ve discovered fantasies. At what point did you think, “Oh, maybe I’d like to experience this with another person” instead of just inside your head and your own body?

JULIA: Yeah. So, that’s where the complication of sexuality enters into the picture. So, for a very long time, I just assumed that I was straight and had I would consider pretty serious straight crushes throughout my childhood, teenage years starting probably in 4th grade. I remember very vividly having crushes on multiple boys.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And as a class, me and my friends would basically rank the boys that we had crushes on.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And I used to journal a lot as a young person. And I have this journal that lists my out my like list. That was what we called it. And yeah, so I can’t say that any of those were not just cultural influences, if that makes sense. Everyone else had crushes. And so, I was like, “Yeah. I have a crush too.” It definitely was partly that. And then, growing, aging myself, in high school I had a very intense crush on a neighbor who was a close family friend who was also a boy and it got to the point where it was hard for me to be in the room with him.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: But I never told him I had a crush on him. And yeah, I think that that crush went on for two years, really struggling to navigate. I think looking back on it, I really just wanted to be close to him and be his friend, but somehow that wasn’t accessible to me. So, in high school, I never had any relationship or kissed anyone and I was a very awkward teen.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Let me just pause you there for a second. Was not having a relationship and not kissing anyone by choice or by circumstance?

JULIA: I don’t think that it was outright by choice. Yeah, it’s so complicated because now knowing that I’m not really attracted to cis men and I just didn’t realize who I was attracted to, it’s hard to say that it was by circumstance or by choice. I think it really was just I didn’t know who I was and who I was attracted to. And yeah, just looking back on my teen years, I didn’t have anyone modelling anything other than either a straight heterosexual cisgender relationship or my parents did have two cis gay friends.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: We knew them and we weren’t super close to them, but I knew two gay people.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: So, it really wasn’t modelled to me, the queer woman relationship or just personhood.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Nobody asked me out. I think it’s partially I don’t know what I would have said if somebody did, but I also wasn’t really interested in pursuing anybody or anybody that I thought I should pursue.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Obviously, I did have that massive crush. But it wasn’t something that I really felt comfortable telling him about or make a kiss happen.

LEAH: Sure. All right. So, you were about to move into your college experience.

JULIA: Yeah. So, my freshman year of college, I went to a small college in North Carolina and I developed again another massive crush on a cis man.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: But it was again something that I never pursued actively. It just was this passive like, “Oh my god, I have this huge crush. How do I interact with him?” We had a couple of classes together. I did tell my friends about this crush and I remember one of my love language is acts of service, but mostly it manifested in baking things for other people for a really long time.

And so, I made this guy some cupcakes and I was going to deliver to his room. We lived in the same dorm. And I wrote him this little note and my roommate, who we were very close, and she’s this hilarious person who’s really into pranking people, she drew a penis on the note that I was going to deliver to him. And obviously, I didn’t deliver it, but that made me super uncomfortable, not really the act of her doing this mini prank, but just the penis being there.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Which I think is a sign of something, but it’s something that I did not know because I watched straight porn. I still to this day do as well, which is interesting, but yeah. So, I see penises in images and everything, but the explicit thought of my roommate connecting a penis to this man that I had a crush on was like, “Oh my god. I’m not interested in that whatsoever.”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Then, the next step in my journey was I was really close to this other person at school in my freshman year. Actually, she has four moms, so her two moms that were married when they had her, then separated and then remarried, so she has four moms.

LEAH: I love that.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Yes, I was so jealous of her.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: So, we would go over to her house every few weeks. And so, two of her moms were the first actual lesbians that I knew were gay and spent a lot of time with. And that first step was incredible for me. I was like, “Oh my gosh. These women love each other, they live together. They have lives together.” And I didn’t really know that that was an option. I don’t know.

It’s very confusing to me because my parents are pretty liberal people, but they’re not really ones to step out of their community or comfort zone. They never really told me like, “These are the options. You don’t have to be straight or anything like that.” So, I just didn’t know.

And so, then my friend, we were just lying. We would all sleep in her bed and we were lying, just me and her. I don’t know where my roommate was, but we were just lying in bed and I don’t really know how the conversation came up, but we were talking about sexuality because she identified, at that time, I think as bisexual. And I just remember there was this pause in the conversation and she asked me what I was thinking about and I said, “I’m just thinking that I might not be straight.”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And that was pretty much it. We were never intimate with each other, me and this friend, but she was really both with her parents, but also her as an individual being very, very open about her sexuality. And I had never talked to anybody or been close to anybody who shared that experience with me. Yeah.

LEAH: It reminds me some of my own experience. What’s different is that there were gay people all over the place in my childhood home. My parents had a lot of gay friends. So, I always knew that that was okay. I knew that straight was okay. I knew gay was okay. There was no question.

What confused the hell out of me was that I seemed to like both and there wasn’t a model of that anywhere in my life that I was aware of. And so, there was a period in my late teens, early 20s when I thought, “Then, I must be a lesbian because I’m interested in women and you can only be interested in women if you’re a lesbian, so okay I’ll do that.” And it wasn’t until I was hanging out with a group of lesbians and one of them said, “I feel like I need to come out as bisexual” that I was like, “Oh, wait. What is this now that you said?”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And that opened up a whole world for me that I didn’t even know existed.

JULIA: Yeah. That’s amazing and also, it’s so complicated in any queer space of we have to identify ourselves one way or the other. It’s almost militant.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And actually, I remember this very strongly, she said it with a sense of, “Even in a group of lesbians, I feel like I have to come out and I’m still not going to be accepted.” Noe, I know that has changed some, but there is still some distrust of bisexual people in lesbian spaces. I think that maybe if you call yourself pansexual, it’s a little bit more open, but there’s still distrust for sure in those spaces.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Are you aching to explore new vistas of your sexuality, but you’re not quite sure how to proceed? Are you wondering if your desires are normal? Are you afraid you’ll have to blow up your existing relationship to have the kind of sex you want? Or maybe you’re hearing these conversations every week and thinking, “I understand what she’s talking about, I just don’t know how to do it in my life?” Well, that’s where personalized sex and intimacy coaching comes in.

When you work with me, I promise to help you feel safe exploring your sexuality. I promise that your sexuality is not shameful and together, we’ll help you see yourself, your needs, and your desires without judgment. Now I’m not going to tell you what you should do or feed your answers, that’s not what coaching is about. Instead, I’m going to walk with you in the process of discovering what’s right for you in a way that respects your emotional needs, your boundaries, and the pace that’s right for your nervous system. Because going too fast can send you into shutdown, while going too slow can be infuriating and exhausting. The goal is to find the right pace for you.

I work with clients who are motivated to explore many different areas of sexuality, including things like learning how to talk about your sexual desires with current or future partners, learning to date after a long time out of the dating pool, questioning if you might be queer, challenging body image insecurity in sexual relationships, dipping your toes into BDSM or consensual non-monogamy, exploring sexuality for later in life virgins, recovering from infidelity, and so much more.

I believe this work is deeply important and should be available to every woman, regardless of your financial situation. That is why I now offer variable pricing. Whether you’re experiencing financial challenges, are financially stable, or have some extra to pay it forward, there’s an option for you and I give the same level of care and support to you regardless of the pricing level you choose. For more information and to schedule a discovery call, visit www.leahcarey.com/coaching. That’s www.leahcarey.com/coaching. Now, let’s get back to the conversation.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: You told me that you identify as queer/pansexual. And yet everything I’ve heard you say so far suggests to me that you are not interested in the penis.

JULIA: Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, let’s talk about where you are, what your interests are.

JULIA: Yeah. So, the queer/pansexual identity, I’ve come into that really in the past three years, I would say. And it came from realizing that I was attracted to more than just cis women, so my current partner is non-binary. So, for a really long time, I identified as gay. For whatever reason, I don’t like the term lesbian, which is probably something that I can unpack and also just the queer community could unpack.

But yeah, for a really long time, I was like, “I’m just gay.” And then, I did have a semi sexual experience with a cis man, which was fine. It was a combination of that experience, and then being with my current partner who is non-binary that I’m like, “Okay. I’m not just attracted to cis women although that is where the majority of my interaction lies.” But yeah, I know that I am attracted to more than just cis ladies.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: That’s where that comes from.

LEAH: All right. So, again back to the timeline, I love it when conversations go all over the place, but I also want to make sure that we get all the important points. So, you’re lying on the bed with your friend from college. You have admitted to yourself and to another person that you are potentially not straight. And it sounds like at this point you still haven’t kissed anybody. Is that correct?

JULIA: Yeah, that’s correct.

LEAH: Okay. So, at what point did you begin to interact with other people?

JULIA: Yeah. So, that happened the summer after that year. So, I went and lived and worked on a farm with this couple and there was this woman who worked in the café that the couple owned. And I split my time between the farm and the café, grocery store. And myself and this woman just struck up a flirtation and she was significantly older than me. I was 19 and I believe she was 31. We were very flirtatious and it was really fun.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Because I remember writing a message to this old friend from college who I had admitted to and my roommate who also knew that I was having these feelings who were thinking that I was not straight. I wrote them a message of like, “I’m attracted to a woman. It happened. You guys were right.”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: So, that was fun. And I invited this person over to hang out with me. I think it was this unspoken thing that we would end up sleeping on the same bed. And so, we did. And then, I just remember lying there next to her and neither of us were really falling asleep and I said, “Man, I’m having such a hard time sleeping.” And she asked, “Why?”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And I was like, “I just really want to kiss you.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Wow, very brave.

JULIA: Thank you, but at that time, it was like I couldn’t even imagine saying that. It really took a lot to say that.

LEAH: Yeah, it’s huge.

JULIA: Yeah. So, we made out for a while. And then, I think I told her that I had never kissed anybody because it was moving towards more happening.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Yeah, I don’t remember exactly what I said. And then, she was like, “Oh, okay. Maybe we shouldn’t have sex on the first night that you also have your first kiss.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: How did that land for you? Was there a sense of relief and gratitude or you were like, “No, I want to?”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: I don’t know. I was like, “Yeah. That makes sense. Maybe we should take it slow.” Yeah, it wasn’t necessarily a relief, but it wasn’t a let-down because it felt like it would happen eventually.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Was that initial make out session fun?

JULIA: Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Just thinking back on all the angst and anxiety I felt around maybe instigating anything with a cis man, it was definitely terrifying to tell her I wanted to kiss her, but it just felt right and we’re both attracted to each other. It’s so obvious. Yeah, it was really fun.

LEAH: Excellent.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And so, did you end up getting back together with her and going the next step?

JULIA: Yeah. So, I would say we were dating. It ended really weirdly, so it’s hard for me to be like, “Yeah, we were together.”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: But yeah, so we were together for about two months and I don’t remember when we first had sex. But we had sex a few times and she was really caring. And obviously, she knew it was my first time for everything, so she took it very slowly. I remember I don’t know if this was the first time or not, but I just have this very vivid memory. She was going down on me and I was like, “What are you doing?”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Before you started having sex with her, did you have any idea what two women or two vagina owners do together in bed?

JULIA: Oh, interesting. I don’t know. Possibly from porn, which obviously isn’t accurate.

LEAH: Which is not realistic.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Yeah, it’s not accurate.

LEAH: First of all, most women who are fooling around with other women don’t have two-inch long nails.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Right. I can see why.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Note to listener, wear very short nails.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Yeah. That’s a really interesting question. I don’t remember. Yeah, I wish I could remember more about the first time, but it has all melded with all the experiences, which were really fun. Yeah, she was going down on me. And at this point, I’m like, “Yeah.” She was really good at going down on people and me.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: But it was something I had never experienced before.

LEAH: So, sex in general with her was fun?

JULIA: Yeah. It was fun. She introduced me to what lube was and she just used coconut oil. She was like, “Yeah. If you don’t need to use a condom, coconut oil is great.”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Looking back now that I just said that, I was like we didn’t use any protection. We didn’t really talk about any STIs, which was not great for me obviously. And it was very unlikely that I had any STI, but she had been in other relationships. So, I do wish we had had that conversation.

LEAH: Yeah. I feel like I should pause here for a second. And for people who are not familiar with coconut oil as a lube, it is a wonderful addition to sexy fun. The reason that we say don’t use it with condoms is that there’s potentially an interaction between the coconut oil and the condom that can degrade the condom. So, if you’re using a condom specifically for birth control and for protection from STIs, then that is not your best choice for lube. But if you are not using a condom, hell yes!

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: All natural, slippy, slidy, smells good.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. So, you mentioned that that ended strangely, which you can talk about or not as you choose.

JULIA: It was a very confusing ending. So, throughout the few months that we were involved, we had had few conversations about our age difference is pretty large and she wasn’t concerned about it because we were both on the same level of being humans. Reflecting on that statement, I wish that I had the knowledge to see that as a potential maybe admission from her that she wasn’t emotionally mature. If you’re 31 and you’re comparing yourself to a 19-year-old, I don’t know.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: But anyway, she got back with her ex that she was broken up with during the time that we were sleeping together. And in a way, that was really painful for me. I had gotten home from the weekend and I think she called me and she just said, “I don’t think we should be together. I’m getting back with her.”

LEAH: That’s painful. Yeah. Did you have to continue to see her for a while because you were working at the same place?

JULIA: Yes. We did for a little while, but I pretty much hightailed out of there because of that. Yeah.

LEAH: So, what happened next for you?

JULIA: Yeah. So, in all of that, I came out to my family.

LEAH: How did that go?

JULIA: It actually went really well. I’m really fortunate to have very loving family members and yeah, I told my sister first. She actually came up and visited me while I was on the farm and seeing this woman. And she actually does not like that individual person because of how she treated me.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Which is I understand now. But yeah, she’s amazing. And I told my mom in the most cryptic way. I think I said something like, “It wouldn’t hurt this badly if we hadn’t been involved or something like that.” And I just left it at there, let my mom interpret.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Yeah. And I’m sure my mom talked to my dad about it, but I didn’t officially come out to him until the following year. We were I think drinking coffee and I was just like, “I’m sure mom told you, but I just wanted to tell you that I’m gay.”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And he was really sweet. He just said, “I’m so proud of you for knowing who you are.”

LEAH: Oh, that’s lovely.

JULIA: Yeah.

LEAH: I hope that all gay lesbian queer children get to have an experience like that. So, you mentioned that at some point, you had a sexual experience with a penis, so I’m curious how that came about and what it was like for you.

JULIA: In the year following graduation, I served in an AmeriCorps program and I had this crush on a guy. I went to a college that was full of lesbians and queer people, so to leave college and then be like, “Damn it. I have a crush on a cis guy. What the hell is wrong with me?”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: But yeah, we had a pretty intense crush situation going on. It was a residential AmeriCorps program, so we were living in the same housing and commuting to work together like spending all of our time with this big group of people. Maybe four months into that experience, we were actually driving in the car with another person in our program and we were just all talking about the people we had friend crushes on the beginning of the program and maybe people we actually had crushes on.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And I turned to him and I was like, “I have a crush on you for a while.”

LEAH: You’re so brave.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Thank you. And actually, in that car ride, I also said I had a crush on my current partner.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: We ended up together. So, I admitted both of those in the car ride and he was like, “Yeah, I have a crush on you too.” And so, I don’t love this story, but it’s something I need to process a little more. But we went on a walk and we smoked a little weed. So, I was a little bit high, and then we ended up sitting together in the forest.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And then, we started making out. I don’t really know what happened, but we were kissing suddenly. And very suddenly, he put his hands down my pants.

LEAH: Without invitation?

JULIA: Yeah. It’s complicated because I was high. I never explicitly said, “Yeah, put your hands down my pants,” but I also didn’t say no, which I know is not consent.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And then, he was touching my clit and it seemed like he was trying to penetrate. And I was like, “Actually, I’m on my period” and I was. It wasn’t even a way to get out of that event. And then, pretty quickly it all stopped. So, we didn’t have sex, but it was this weird event.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. Did the two of you continue a friendship or did things get awkward?

JULIA: Things got a little bit awkward, but eventually we did continue a friendship and never really talked about that evening.

LEAH: Yeah.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Are you ready for easy access to birth control? Me too! That’s why I’m so excited about Planned Parenthood Direct, Planned Parenthood’s app. You can use the app to get birth control prescribed and mailed right to your home or sent to your pharmacy for pickup. You can also communicate directly with licensed Planned Parenthood doctors and nurses and learn about different types of birth control to figure out which one is right for you because we’re all different.

Insurance isn’t required and birth control starts at only $20 a pack. In some states, you can even get UTI treatment and emergency contraception through the app. You can download the Planned Parenthood Direct app from the App Store or Google Play Store. It’s currently available in 39 states plus DC. And if it’s not in your state yet, sign up to be notified of new state launches on www.plannedparenthooddirect.org. Links are in the Show Notes. Accessible and affordable convenient birth control is huge, so if you use birth control, download Planned Parenthood Direct today!

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Do you find yourself using the same fantasy over and over to the point that it no longer gets you as hot and excited as you want? That’s definitely what happens to me. My brain fixates on one fantasy for a while until suddenly poof! It no longer works for me. That’s why I love Dipsea.

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[MUSIC]

LEAH: So, you mentioned that you also had a crush on your current partner at the time. Now, I want to ask so that I get this right, what pronouns does your partner use?

JULIA: Yeah. So, they use they/them pronouns.

LEAH: They/them. Okay. I’m going to try really hard to get those correct.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And please feel free to correct me if I get it wrong. So, how did you and your partner get together?

JULIA: Yeah. So, this program that I was serving in was a 10-month program. So, there were 18 people in that group at the beginning. So, there were just a lot of people, but I knew I had a crush a little bit on my current partner. But my energies were elsewhere at that time because I also had a crush on somebody that I went to college with, so all of my romantic brain was all scrambled.

LEAH: You were all up in your hormones, it sounds like.

JULIA: Yes, absolutely.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: We did hang out a little bit where we came out to each other and they identify as bisexual.

LEAH: And did they identify as non-binary at that time?

JULIA: Yes.

LEAH: Because that’s a more recent thing that has come into the mainstream, so yeah.

JULIA: Yeah. So, I can’t remember if they explicitly told the whole community that they identified that way, but they were using they/them pronouns at the time. Yeah. I think it was probably June or July of our 10-month program, which was that 7 months in or something, and they discouraged any exclusive relationship whether that was a friendship or a romantic relationship. But it was really fun to go about it and be like, “Oh my gosh. I have a crush.”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: It was really fun.

LEAH: It’s also somewhat unrealistic to put a group of 20-ish-year-olds together and then say, “Yeah, don’t hook up.”

JULIA: Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Nice concept, not going to happen.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Yeah. I totally understand where they’re coming from with that intention, but yes, agreed.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: So, we picked up take out and one of those big bottles of wine.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And we were cuddling on the bed, and then we were making out.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And it was so much fun. Yeah, it just made sense. But they was like such a joy, and then our friend came out of the shower. And we had to be like, “We’re not doing anything.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, can I ask you a couple questions about gender and sexuality? Are you comfortable with that?

JULIA: Sure, yeah.

LEAH: So, I assume that your non-binary partner has a vagina. Is that a correct assumption?

JULIA: Yeah.

LEAH: Okay. How does their non-binariness play into your relationship specifically your sexual relationship, if at all?

JULIA: So, it does and it’s an ongoing conversation between the two of us. It plays in many ways. One of them is what they’re comfortable with me touching. So, for part of our relationship, they didn’t want me to touch their chest at all because they’re considering getting top surgery. And I was like, “Of course. That’s totally fine. I don’t want to make you uncomfortable in any way.”

And then, recently actually now that the pandemic’s happening and they don’t have to go out into the world quite as much and be seen and misgendered by other people, they were like, “You can touch my chest now and not as uncomfortable with that.” And of course, that might change at any time, but yeah that’s one aspect of it.

LEAH: And how do you feel about that? Is that hard for you to wrap your mind around? Like, “I couldn’t, but now I can, but I might not be able to in the future” or is that really just a, “I’ll take it day by day” for you?

JULIA: Yeah. In general, it is totally fine for me because as I said, I don’t want to do anything that would make them uncomfortable. But for myself, reflecting on they might get top surgery and these might be gone, truthfully, I will be a little bit sad. But I will also be very happy that they are more comfortable in their body. But I really love boobs.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: That was one of my questions for you too. As somebody who appreciates the cisgender female form, are boobs a part of that for you?

JULIA: Yeah, absolutely.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Yeah. So, it’s been wonderful that they’ve invited me back to those. And yeah, they have really nice boobs.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, I want to pause here for a second and appreciate you for the fact that you can hold these two things that you can really love. Their boobs, you can really be appreciate of that aspect of their body and also be extremely understanding and supportive of their need to not have that kind of relationship with them. I think that shows a great deal of generosity and empathy on your part and I love that.

JULIA: Thank you.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA:  So, I’m really flat chested. I barely have any breast tissue.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And sometimes we joke that, “Man, if we could only switch because I would love them. Just give them to me.”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Not only would I love just to have bigger boobs, but also to take that burden off of them and to still be able to appreciate them. Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, how is sex between the two of you?

JULIA: So, it’s funny. Going back in time for the first time we had sex, neither of us had actually gone down on a vagina before. So, going back to my past sexual experiences with my first partner, she wouldn’t let me touch her in any way. And then, the few people that I had quick flings with in college, we didn’t really get to that point. My current partner had dated a cis woman before, but I don’t know if they ever had sex. But they had never gone down on anyone. So, it was a funny first time.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Neither of us really knew what to do, which is I think a blessing because it’s hard to know what to ask for. I hadn’t had a lot of sex before my current partner. I really only had sex with one other person and then kind of with two other people. And so, I’ve been learning a lot about what I like and also learning how to communicate that. I’m not a very direct communicator and obviously that translates into sex.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: But I think we’re both very patient and willing to learn. So, now our sex life is great. And I think another thing that we’ve ben navigating is depression. And my partner has had history of not consensual sex as well, so it’s also a navigation of what feels good at what time and it changes. Even, yeah, being able to ask for what they need sometimes is hard for them. So, definitely been a process and I think obviously an ongoing one. But I learned that I don’t like penetration really at all.

LEAH: Oh, really?

JULIA: I want to because I think it’s really hot.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: But for me, it’s like mostly clitoral stimulation. But for them, it’s mostly penetration, which I really enjoy. So, we’ve got fun strap-on and also just fingers. But yeah, that’s been fun.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. There’s an important part that we have not covered yet, which is that you mentioned to me that you’re currently monogamous, but that that may be something that will shift. And so, I’m curious to hear where you’re at and what your thoughts are about that.

JULIA: Right now, I do strongly identify as monogamous, but it’s something that my partner and I have had many conversations about because many of our friends are poly and it’s just part of our life. And we’ve witnessed them navigating being in a monogamous relationship, and then realizing, “Oh, actually I’m poly.”

And so, what that process has looked like has made me and my partner think about that for ourselves. Right now, I’m not interested in pursuing anybody else, but it’s something that I feel really safe if I were to communicate to my partner like, “Hey, I think I want to pursue someone whenever it is.” It’s something that we’ve both talked about. “Hey, do you want to pursue anybody else?” “No.” “Do you?” “No.”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: But I think if that were a thing, it would be okay.

LEAH: I love that the word that you used there was you would feel safe doing it. That I think is primary over everything else.

JULIA: Yeah.

LEAH: Yeah. I love that.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Friends, let’s talk about Patreon. It has been quite an evolution over the last two and a half years. For a long time, I took cuts from the episodes and put them on Patreon for people who financially supported the show. But by mid-2020, that no longer felt right because I was hearing from listeners who said they wanted to hear the Patreon extras because the show was making such a difference in their lives, but they couldn’t afford to donate. It really doesn’t feel appropriate to withhold this material in exchange for monetary support. That’s just not what I’m about.

So, from July 2020 through April 2021, I made all audio extras at Patreon free for everyone and that has worked well. I’ve been pleased to see that my Patreon support didn’t drop when you were supporting the show because you appreciate it rather than paying to get something in exchange. And now, I’m evolving again. Instead of pulling clips out of the show for Patreon and keeping the main episode as close to 50 minutes as possible, I’m letting the conversations play out in full in the main episode.

If my work is meaningful to you and you have a few dollars to support it each month, I will gratefully accept your patronage at Patreon. If you have more than a few dollars, consider donating extra in honor of women who need this material, but aren’t in a position to contribute. And I donate 10% of all Patreon contributions to ARC-Southeast, an organization that supports women in the Southeast United States to access reproductive services that are currently being legislated out of existence.

I appreciate every one of you whether you’re a client, a contributor, a social media follower or a silent listener. I trust you to know what’s right for you. Thank you for being here. You can find out more and become a community member at www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex. And if your finances are tight, but you still want to support the show, I would love it if you would take a screenshot of this episode on your phone and post it on Instagram. Tag me in your post and I’ll send you a personal thank you. Or send your favorite episode to a friend and invite them to chat about it with you. Use this show as a jumping off point to deepen your own conversations around intimacy and sex. Now, let’s get back to the conversation.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Are there any questions that you have about your current sex life or sexuality in general?

JULIA: Yes.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Butt stuff, if I can just put that there.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: So, I have never tried any anal play at all. But one of my closest friends and she’s like, “It’s amazing.”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: She’s gone so far as to give me dental dams to try.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: So, the reason why I’m interested is because I know I get a lot of pleasure from any touch, just on my butt cheeks, which obviously might not necessarily translate to anal pleasure, but whether it’s a light touch or a slap, all of that is like, “Oh.” I feel like I want to do a ton of research and I’m pretty nervous to try it.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Sure. You mentioned that you don’t enjoy vaginal penetration. Is that because you don’t have a lot of pleasure receptors there or is that because you don’t enjoy the experience of actual penetration inside your body?

JULIA: I think it’s because I don’t have a lot of receptors. Yeah. I don’t really mind having fingers. Sometimes, if I’m having sex I will sometimes ask, “Will you just penetrate for a minute and then come back out?”

LEAH: Okay. So, it’s not unpleasant? It’s just not something that you’re seeking?

JULIA: Yeah. Sometimes, it’s uncomfortable. I think probably if there’s not enough lube, but for me, I don’t know what the word is, the rubbing is not very comfortable. Yeah.

LEAH: Okay. Great. So, I wanted to make sure that if penetration in general was unpleasant for you, then I would couch this answer a little bit differently. But yeah, some people have lots of receptors in one place and very few receptors in other places. For instance, I grew up assuming that, I’m showing you my clothed breasts.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: But I assumed that the sensation was supposed to center on the nipple and I have little to no sensation in my nipple. So, I just thought I was broken. I thought my body was messed up. It turns out my sensation is down around the side and underneath of the breast. So, it just means that my pleasure receptors are located a little differently than I had imagined based on porn.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, the fact that you don’t get a ton of pleasure from vaginal penetration doesn’t necessarily mean that you won’t enjoy anal play. That may just be that your receptors are shifted differently. You may love it. You may hate it. It’s all fine.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: When I first thought about anal play, I was like, “Hell, no. Nobody’s going there.” Because in my mind, anal play immediately meant full-on anal sex. Whether that was a penis or a dildo or whatever, it was full-on. So, anal play has hundreds of steps or at least tons of steps.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Between just a little bit of play to see if you enjoy the basic area and full-on penetrative like, “Let’s go to town.” So, you can start with just a little gentle touching in that area as one woman who I spoke with called it the rose bud.

JULIA: I love that.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. So, let’s talk about your partner touching you. If they put a little bit of lube on one of their fingers and just lightly touch your rose bud, then you can find out if that’s something that you really enjoy or if it’s something like, “Yeah. I think I’m good. Thanks.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Depending on both of your levels of comfort with or without a dental dam, you can try a tongue there. Then if you feel like, “Okay. I’m enjoying this and I think I might want to try a little bit more,” then you can move on to penetration. But I am not in any way, shape, or form suggesting that you go all the way to dildo or anything like that. You start with the very end of the pink with a lot of lube. It doesn’t have to be your pinky, but that’s your smallest finger.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: What I’m saying is start with something very small and you just do a little bit. And one of my favorite things, I heard this from Amory Jane. Ill put her information because she does classes. I think she calls them Back That Butt Up! or Back That Ass Up!

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: She does great anal sex classes. And I took one of her classes and what I loved was that she talked about it as any time you’re going for insertion in the anal area, you don’t just go in. You approach it as if it’s a doorbell and you go bing-bong.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: I will never forget that because actually what my elevator in my building sounds like, so my partner and I get a lot of laughs out of that.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: But you go, bing-bong. And if they let you in, but if when you press in, if there’s a little bit of give, then you can continue pressing. But if the anus is not ready to open, you don’t keep pressing. You just do a little bit more touch. You do a little bit more gentling and turning on, and then you try again. “Are you ready now?” And at some point, when they’re relaxed presumably, they will open enough to allow the tip of the finger in. And if that doesn’t happen, it’s okay. If it’s still enjoyable for both of you, you haven’t lost anything.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: You can do it again another time and see if you can get to that point. And if you don’t like it, then great. Now, you know you never have to do it again. Okay. For listeners, I am now going to show Julia a toy and I will put a link to it in the description.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, this is my favorite toy for anal play because as you can see, it has graduated sizes of balls that have a definitive end point. So, if you’re doing the bing-bong method, and you’re allowed in, you go in just to the end of the first ball and you can play with it. You can move it around a little. You can just do a little bit of in and out movement to see if that’s pleasurable or you can actually move it around some to see if that’s pleasurable. If you’re enjoying it and you want to try, you can go to the next ball. There are five ball-ish, bead-ish, I’m using terrible words for this.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: But there are five gradations on here. I myself I think have only gotten to the third one and we’ve play with it a bunch. That’s just as much as my body enjoys. So, I’ll send you information for this toy.

JULIA: Thank you, yeah. That’s awesome.

LEAH: But I think the most important thing is that if you’re going to play in this area, just like any other area, but this area brings so much shame and fear around it, that the play needs to be fun. You need to associate pleasure and fun with it in order to overcome all that cultural messaging about it being dirty and shameful.

JULIA: Yeah, definitely feel a lot of shame, even though I do feel really safe exploring things with my partner. But I’m like, “Nobody should go there, not even me.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah, sure. The other thing is that there are things called dilator kits. If you’re wanting to get to a full-on dildo type penetration, a dilator kit might be a good option. I would still suggest starting with the starter toy like this one. But the dilator kit will actually move you up through several sizes of insertions.

JULIA: Like over hours or days?

LEAH: You get to choose.

JULIA: Cool.

LEAH: This is really important to be able to say, “Okay. I’ve had enough now. Thank you.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Then either go on to have vaginal play or to have clit play, so that you can end the session with an orgasm again to really instill that this is fun or not. If your body is like, “Yeah. I’m done,” then great. Let it be done.

JULIA: Yeah, okay. Cool. Thank you.

LEAH: Yeah. You’re welcome. I’m so glad you asked.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: And now, it’s time for the Lowdown, the things we’re dying to know, but would usually be too polite to ask any good girl.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Do you have sex during your period?

JULIA: Yes. Usually not on the first or second day because I’m not interested. But towards the end, yeah. Because again I like clit play and that’s where I get all of my pleasure. So yeah, my partner is comfortable with it as long as I’m comfortable.

LEAH: And what about during their period?

JULIA: Yeah. They are much less interested. I haven’t asked if it’s because they’re mostly interested in penetration, but they’re just not that interested.

LEAH: Does a period bring on any sense of body dysmorphia for them?

JULIA: Yeah.

LEAH: That makes sense. Yeah. What’s the approximate number of sex partners you’ve had?

JULIA: Three.

LEAH: Have you ever had sex with someone of a different racial identity than your own?

JULIA: No.

LEAH: What’s your favorite sex toy?

JULIA: Can I have two answers?

LEAH: Of course, you can.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: One that I like for myself and one that I like to use.

LEAH: I love that, yes.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: So, because I don’t like penetration, my current partner and I got a little clit stimulative toy that it’s shaped like a bunny.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And so, the ears, it’s like two fingers. The ears vibrate because there’s a little vibrator and my partner can stick on their finger and use that.

LEAH: Oh, fun.

JULIA: Yes. So, sometimes if their hand cramps, they can pull that out.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And then, the toy that I like to use most is just our basic dildo and we have a nice strap-on. So, the strap-on for me is nice because there’s a spot for a vibrator, so I get some stimulation, and then I can be penetrating them.

LEAH: Nice. What is your favorite sex position?

JULIA: I feel like I have two answers for that one again.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: I’m really only able to orgasm when I’m lying on my back, which is great because I know that about myself. But part of me is like, “I want to have sex everywhere and in every position.”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: But I’m like, “Nope. Just throw me on my back and I’ll cum in two minutes.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, do you ever use the positions just as like this is fun play time that doesn’t have an end point?

JULIA: Yeah. So, the buildup to the answer is we really only recently started playing with me getting penetrated from behind. So, on the occasions where penetration can feel good, that’s pretty hot. I really like if I’m giving to penetrate them from behind as well. And another position that we just stumbled upon is if I have my back to them and we’re both on our sides, and then they can reach around and just go at my clit.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: I don’t know if that one has a name.

LEAH: The reach around, yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Do you prefer to initiate or for your partner to initiate in the bedroom?

JULIA: I think both. I don’t know. Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Okay. Are you generally more active or more passive during lovemaking?

JULIA: Active.

LEAH: You’ve already answered this, but I’m going to ask you again. Do you prefer clit stimulation or penetration?

JULIA: Clit stimulation.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Do you enjoy having your breasts played with?

JULIA: Not a ton. It’s always a fun benefit, but it’s not my favorite thing. I do like my nipples to be tugged at, so yeah.

LEAH: Okay. Do you generally think it’s easy or challenging for you to orgasm?

JULIA: That depends on many things. It’s really easy for me to orgasm if I’m masturbating. My partner jokes that my clit is very specific and I can tell them that’s the spot.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: But I think sometimes if we’re having sex, it’s like sometimes in my head, I get anxious and it’s not going to happen. And then, it’s hard for me to get out of that headspace. So, sometimes it’s a little bit harder if I’m having sex with my partner or a partner to orgasm. But I’m pretty good at it by myself.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: I’m very similar.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. Have you ever faked an orgasm?

JULIA: No.

LEAH: Do you prefer the orgasm from masturbating or from sex with a partner?

JULIA: They’re different. I don’t know if I could pick one because, yeah, they are a little bit different for me. But I love orgasm with a partner because it feels like we’re together and just it brings me a lot of joy to get there with another person. But also, with myself because it’s pretty easy, it’s like, “Yes.”

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: It just feels good. Yeah. I would say I masturbate quite a lot and so I like that one as well.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: What kind of touch do you enjoy most?

JULIA: It does depend on what mood I’m in. I think I like caresses if we’re building up to sex, but at some point, I also get overstimulated by light touch or tickling sensations. So, sometimes tickles feel really, really good and they turn me on. And then other times, it makes me feel way too much input, so it depends. Other times, I like rougher touch of a slap or throwing me on the bed or whatever.

LEAH: Yeah. What are your hard red lines?

JULIA: Anything around my throat. I’ve never even played with breath play, but even just if someone has their arm around. If I’m lying down and someone has their arm on me, I feel like I’m going to be choked. So, I don’t even want to go there.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. Are there sexual things you’ve tried that you don’t ever want to do again?

JULIA: I don’t think so. There’s one specific sex toy that I have tried that just didn’t work for me.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: But it wasn’t a sex position or type of sex.

LEAH: How do you feel about your partner masturbating without you being present?

JULIA: Oh, great. All power to them.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: How do you feel about your partner watching porn?

JULIA: Great, yeah.

LEAH: Do you ever watch porn together?

JULIA: No. We’ve never watched it together, but we both watch it.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Do you have similar types of porn that you both like?

JULIA: I think they watch more variety. For some reason, I really just like straight porn.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: And I think they watch all different types of people.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And just for the record, it is not weird to watch porn of sex acts that you don’t actually want to participate in.

JULIA: Thank you.

LEAH: It’s totally normal.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Do you have hair down there or are you bare?

JULIA: I have a lot of hair.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Yeah. I don’t really shave anymore.

LEAH: Have you ever had a threesome or more?

JULIA: No.

LEAH: Does it interest you?

JULIA: I don’t think so at this time and I don’t know. This might be an inaccurate assumption, but the exhibitionism aspect for some reason relates to a threesome in my brain that I just want to do it with one other person.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah, sure. Do you enjoy giving oral sex?

JULIA: Yes. My current partner doesn’t love it. It’s like sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t.

LEAH: Receiving you mean?

JULIA: Yeah, they don’t like to receive. Yes, but I do like to give.

LEAH: And do you enjoy receiving oral sex?

JULIA: Yes.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Have you ever tried a clit sucker toy?

JULIA: No. I’ve heard of those.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: I’ll send you information about that too.

JULIA: Yes, thank you.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Okay. Do you ever worry about your smell or taste?

JULIA: Sometimes, yeah. I think just based on where I am on my cycle. Sometimes a little bit more than others, but I’ve been with my partner for so long that everything’s on the table, I feel.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: So, definitely not with my current partner.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: What do you consider the “kinkiest” thing that you enjoy with the understanding that everybody’s scale of kink is totally different?

JULIA: I think any biting, yeah, and hair pulling, I think as well. I didn’t really think of that as a kinky thing until another friend, I don’t remember what she asked, but I was like, “Yeah, I do these things that would be considered kinky and I really enjoy them.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: You’ve mentioned a few times during our conversation, slapping. And I was curious to circle back to that, does that include the face or is that other places on your body?

JULIA: Yeah. Maybe more accurately would be spanking. So, both my partner and I spank each other occasionally during sex, but yeah, not on the face.

LEAH: Do you enjoy dirty talk during sexual encounters?

JULIA: Not really, no.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Do you enjoy laughter during sexual encounters?

JULIA: Yeah, absolutely.

LEAH: Have you ever felt a sexual urge that confused you?

JULIA: I think my attraction to the cis man.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Confused me just because for so long, I identified as just gay and that was a little confusing, yeah.

LEAH: What is your favorite part of your body?

JULIA: I think my arms maybe. I get a lot of compliments on them and not that that’s the only reason why I would like them.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Yeah, I think they’re nice.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: What’s your least favorite part of your body?

JULIA: This is going to sound worse than I think it is, but my face. I do like how I look, but I had issues with braces as a kid and so my smile is crooked. And I was told that it wouldn’t be an issue, but now it is. And now, I’m just mad at my orthodontists. Whenever I take a picture of myself, that’s the first thing I notice is like, “Oh, my smile is crooked.”

LEAH: Yeah. What is something about your current sex life that isn’t quite as satisfying as you’d like it to be?

JULIA: I think this is something that I’m working on myself, and then also together with my partner, just it’s challenging to communicate sometimes because I experience seasonal depression. My partner has depression and also their history. I’m trying to learn more about how to communicate my needs without restimulating them in any way and so it’s more the communication aspect of the sex life.

LEAH: Sure, which personally I think is the most important part of the sex life.

JULIA: Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: What belief did you have about sex as a child or teenager that you wish you could go back and correct her on now?

JULIA: Oh, gosh. So much.

[LAUGHTER]

JULIA: Yeah, that queer sex was a thing, that I didn’t have to be attracted to cis men, that sex wasn’t this big scary thing. It’s fun and it’s a communication between two or more people.

LEAH: Yeah, awesome. Julia, thank you so much for having this conversation with me. It has been an absolute joy.

JULIA: Thank you so much, Leah. This conversation and just finding your podcast, I wish I had had it as a kid or a teen.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: I wish I had too.

JULIA: Yeah. We all need it.

LEAH: Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

[MUSIC]

LEAH: That’s it for today. Good Girls Talk About Sex is produced by me, Leah Carey, and edited by Gretchen Kilby. I have additional administrative support from Lara O’Connor and Maria Franco. Transcripts are produced by Jan Acielo.

And I’m incredibly grateful for the financial support from Good Girls Talk About Sex community members at Patreon. If you’d like to support me in telling these stories and answering your questions, head over to www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex. You can find Show Notes and Show Transcripts at www.goodgirlstalk.com. To ask a question about your sex life, your desires, or anything to do with female sexuality, call and leave a message at 720-GOOD-SEX.

And before we go, I want to remind you that the things you’ve probably heard about your sexuality are not true. You are worthy. You are desirable. You are not broken. I work with women just like you to reflect their true sexual nature back to them without the judgment, shame or fear that can get in the way of us seeing it for ourselves. As a coach and PJ party hostess, I will guide you in embracing the sexuality that is innately yours no matter what it looks like. I’m here to help you sink so deeply into your true sexuality that the version of yourself that was scared to speak up for her own needs feels like a mirage from another lifetime.

Until next time, here’s to your better sex life!

[MUSIC]

BOOKMARK MOMENTS:
  • Dating a non-binary partner
  • Navigating dysmorphia
  • Early fantasies
  • Voyeurism and exhibitionism
  • Queer/pansexual identity in the bedroom
  • Losing lesbian virginity
  • Learning what you like
  • Butt stuff—how to start exploring anal play
THE LOWDOWN:

Favorite sex toys, strap-on penetration, clit stimulation, masturbation

RESOURCES:

Amory Jane – Anal sex classes – https://www.sheboptheshop.com/back-that-ass-up-anal-sex-101.html

Anal toy – https://www.sheboptheshop.com/fuze-quattro.html

Don’t forget – ALL audio extras are FREE at Patreon!

PATREON:

All archived Good Girls Talk About Sex audio extras are now available for FREE!  They can be accessed at www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex

I’ve done this because not everyone has the means to pay for access, and I know this additional material can be deeply important for some listeners. But creating this show isn’t free, so if you’d like to support the work I do, I am grateful for your contributions at www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex.

BE PART OF THE SHOW:

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Have a question or comment – Leave a voicemail for Leah at 720-GOOD-SEX (720-466-3739) – this is a voicemail-only line, so I promise you won’t have to talk to someone in person!

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WORK WITH LEAH:

Learn about coaching with Leahwww.leahcarey.com/coaching

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EPISODE CREDITS:

Host / Producer – Leah Carey (email)
Audio Editor – Gretchen Kilby
Administrative Support – Lara O’Connor, Maria Franco
Music – Nazar Rybak