In this episode of Good Girls Talk About Sex, we talk with Stacey, a 45-year-old, cis-gendered female who describes herself as black, heterosexual, single, and non-monogamous.
While some may know the term ethical non-monogamy, it’s still not spoken about often in social circles. That can lead to the misconception that it’s rare, when in fact people of all types – and even in the most conservative communities – are engaging in various forms of open relationships. Stacey is totally down-to-earth, so she’s a great person to ease us into this conversation the first time. And stick around for the Quick Five, because Stacey gives an amazing lesson on how to become multi-orgasmic!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT (CLICK TO OPEN)
LEAH: Hi, I’m Leah Carey and this is Good Girls Talk About Sex. This is a place to share conversations with all sorts of women about their experience of sexuality. Before we get started, I want to tell you this. These are unfiltered conversations between adult women talking about sex. If anything about the previous sentence offends you, turn back now! And if you’re looking for a trigger warning, you’re not going to get it from me. I believe that you are the stronger than the trauma you have experienced. I have faith in your ability to deal with the things that upset you. Sound good? Let’s start the show!
LEAH: In today’s episode, we’ll meet Stacey, a 45 year old cisgender woman who describes herself as black, heterosexual, and single. She was monogamous for a long time and is currently practicing ethical non-monogamy. While some may know the term ethical non-monogamy, it’s still not spoken about often in social circles. That can lead to the misconception that it’s rare when in fact people of all types and even in the most conversation communities are engaging in various of open relationships. Stacey is totally down to earth, so she’s a great person to ease us into this conversation the first time. I’m so pleased to introduce Stacey!
Stacey, I’m so excited to talk with you! Thank you for doing this. Thank you for joining me today. STACEY: I’m really excited. I love being on the hotseat.
LEAH: Well, here you are. We’re going to talk all about your sex life. It doesn’t get much hotter. [LAUGHTER]
STACEY: Like, I’m ready.
LEAH: Awesome. So, the first question that I ask every guest that I speak is, what is your first memory of sexual desire?
STACEY: Oh, I was in the single digits like maybe 5 or 6 even. I was definitely in the single digits. I remember feeling aroused and my mom had gotten my older sister and I these ventriloquist dummies for Christmas one year and mine was W.C. Fields. And I remember, the body of the dummy was soft but the hands and the face were hard plastic, and I remember taking his hand and rubbing it against my vulva.
LEAH: Oh, wow. So, you were quite young and you were already making that connection.
STACEY: And I remember it being so pleasurable and me doing that all the time.
LEAH: That’s so interesting. I was actually speaking with another guest recently and she was talking about around that same age, she would get on a rope swing, and she would feel sort of the rope up against her vulva and her clitoris, and that was pleasurable but she didn’t quite make the connection. She didn’t quite understand the cause and effect of that, but it sounds like at that age, you already had the cause and effect very clearly.
STACEY: Yeah, I don’t remember ever not really getting it and I don’t know why, but I don’t ever have any sexual memories that were confusing to me.
LEAH: And so, at what point did that desire transfer from you with an object to another person? Do you remember that?
STACEY: I remember making out with girls. Again, I’m pretty sure I was in the single digits because I don’t remember being over 10, but I remember playing house and not like touching genitals, but kissing and feeling aroused about that. Like friends, we play house or whatever, but I think it came from seeing on TV when there’s a family, that’s what they do.
LEAH: I remember being maybe 10 years old, and there was a soap opera that my family watched, and I remember going to my mom at one point around that time and saying, “Mommy, can I kiss you with our tongues the way they do on television?”
LEAH: And her being horrified. [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: But I had no understanding of how that was different. Yeah, so you have told me before we started recording that you are primarily heterosexual. So those early explorations were with girls. At what point did you discover boys?
STACEY: I do remember making out with one of my cousins. Maybe I was like 9, and I do remember touching his penis in the closet but that was probably where it ended until, I’m trying to think, like what was my first sexual experience with a boy that wasn’t related to me?
LEAH: Well, let’s just pause there for a second because I think some people might hear cousins and think, “Oh, that’s very off limits”, but I think it’s a fairly natural thing.
STACEY: I think it’s normal that I knew other family members that had had similar experiences. So, it didn’t feel abnormal and it didn’t necessarily feel wrong to the point where I would have told on someone, but wrong enough for me to know that it wasn’t something I should be telling an adult.
LEAH: Oh, okay.
STACEY: But I didn’t feel violated. But that experience did make me very mindful for my own daughter because I only have 2 nephews and then there’s my daughter, and my older nephew is 4 years older than my daughter, so I do remember paying more attention to them because of my own experience.
LEAH: Yeah, that makes sense. Was it your cousin who sort of brought you into the closet or were you naturally curious enough to be like, “Hey can we go do this?”
STACEY: I’m pretty sure it was mutual. I’m pretty sure it was mutual, like I said, I do remember arousal. It’s funny because he and I have never talked about this.
STACEY: I do remember like being aroused and I wasn’t coerced. I was not coerced whatsoever. It definitely felt normal like we played together and just felt like something we were playing.
LEAH: Yeah. And I think that’s probably the biggest and most important distinction is whether the child was coerced. And if you feel like, “No, I went into it of my own volition. It was a perfectly fine experience. Nothing bad happened.” Then, great!
STACEY: Yes, absolutely. It definitely was we were just playing, and that just felt like more of that. I mean again, there was an awareness that it was something we shouldn’t be telling adults. There is that, because it wasn’t like I’d go home and be like, “Hey mom, guess what happened?” Like it wasn’t like that, so I did have enough awareness to know that it was something that we didn’t talk about with grownups, but it definitely was consensual.
LEAH: What was the first time that you engaged with somebody who was not a family member? [LAUGHTER]
STACEY: I remember making out with oh, he was so cute. [LAUGHTER]
STACEY: I was in high school or I was at least going to high school. I think I was probably like finishing 9th grade. I think he was younger than me by like a year. He was very attractive, and I saw him later as a grownup. We both had children. We were at Chuck E. Cheese with our kids and I thought, “Oh my god, he’s still so fucking attractive.”
LEAH: Oh, that’s awesome. So, one of the things that I’m always curious about with people who have had, because I was a very late bloomer. I didn’t have my first kiss until I was 17. I didn’t have sex for the first time until I was 25. I was a very good girl.
LEAH: So, for people who are active earlier than I was, I’m curious how much pleasure was a part of it. How much was this about you really experiencing your pleasure and that being forefront and how much of it was about making or causing the other person to feel pleasure? How much of the focus was on you and how much was on him?
STACEY: I’m pretty sure that my early sexual experiences were about my pleasure. In fact, look now that I’m thinking about it, I think my pleasure has always been at the front of my own mind unconsciously. But I definitely don’t remember having any sexual experiences that were about me wanting the other person to feel some kind of way or wanting them to like me, like it was always about my pleasure.
Even the first time I had sex, I was 16, and I literally woke up one day and was like, “I think I’m ready to do it.” And there was a guy who was my older sister’s boyfriend’s brother who I knew he thought I was so cute, and I called him and I said, “So I’m going to come over tomorrow. I’m going to ditch school and I’m going to come over and we’re going to have sex.” And I was 16, he was 18. And he was like, “Uh, okay.”
STACEY: And I did. I went to his house and I was nervous about it, but I felt ready and so I remember it being uncomfortable like physically uncomfortable because it was the first time. And it definitely wasn’t the pleasure that I thought was going to happen, because it was new and my body didn’t know how to feel like full yet, and all that stuff. But even when it felt too painful to proceed, he was like, “I can stop.” I was like “Nope, keep going.” Afterwards, I remember thinking it was overrated. It hurt. It didn’t feel as good as I thought it was going to feel.
LEAH: How long did it take you to do it again?
STACEY: Oh, immediately like yeah, because I was like I knew that I masturbated all the time and it was very pleasurable, and I thought I was very aware that again, now that I’m talking about it, I’m very surprised. I’m always surprised at how wise I was when I was younger, but I was aware that it got better and so I think that I probably the next week.
I did go home and confess to my mother the same day. I was like, “I did it today.” And she’s like, “You did what?” And I was like, “I did it.” And she was not exactly happy, but we had a conversation about it. And I think the next week, I think I pretty much after that it was fairly regular.
LEAH: So, what kind of conversation had you had with your mother beforehand? Was this an open topic of conversation in your household?
STACEY: I wouldn’t say it was open, but it wasn’t closed. I have always been super inquisitive and I challenged both of my parents in terms of the thoughts that I would have and the things I would query.
They really didn’t know what the fuck to do with me and so I asked my mom things all the time like random stuff because even when I told her I had sex then I asked her, “Well, what was your first time like?” My mom was a virgin when she married my dad and I was like, “Tell me about your experience” or whatever, and she did. So, she never shut me up about asking questions about sex, but she definitely didn’t invite it.
LEAH: And what did you see in your childhood home? What kinds of affection did you see between your parents?
STACEY: Almost none.
LEAH: Well, that is fascinating, because I think my natural assumption would be that for a child to have this sort of healthy relationship, that it sounds like you had with your own sexuality, that that would come out of a home where it was being talked about and demonstrated and yet, it sounds like the exact opposite.
STACEY: Oh yeah, nope. There was no physical affection. There were no “I love you”s. My mom was a great mom in terms of the things that she learned how to do like she was extremely neat, so we always had a very immaculate home and we always looked very immaculate because that was important to her.
She showed up for like all the school stuff and all of that stuff, but I don’t remember ever hearing “I love you” until I was a grownup and that became something that we cultivated as a habit as adults, but it’s not something that happened at our house.
LEAH: Wow. As you matured and stated having your own adult relationships, how much did you mirror your parents and how much was it really important to you to say I love you and be really affectionate?
STACEY: I am very communicative, so communication is my super power. How often do I struggle or do I resist expressing physical intimacy toward men? And the answer surprised me because the answer was all the time. And so that opened up this whole bucket of me having realizing the wounds that I had around my father and so like now, I’m really conscious of my body language.
Just recently I went on a coffee date with someone and he said, “Is it okay for me to put my arm like around the back of your chair?” And I was like, “Yeah, it’s fine.” But I could feel my body moving away from him. The more comfortable I feel with someone, the more physical intimacy I express and the easier it is. But I definitely recognize that the physical intimacy piece is definitely still like attached to me from my childhood, whereas sexual intimacy is not a problem for me.
My father and again, now that I’m working through this, I see things. My father was physically present and emotionally absent. So, like now I’m recognizing a lot of different things like I remember on my way to therapy recently, and of course, because the universe either has jokes or something.
STACEY: But on the way there, I’m in the car driving, and then this song comes on, and it’s a country song, and I don’t remember who the singer was. But she was talking about how her father would come to her dance recitals, and that she was the same little girl with her tutu, and how she loved her dad so much. And I was like I’m weeping. I’m like, “My dad never came to dance recitals.”
STACEY: But in that same experience, on that same drive, thankfully I was on my way to therapy, but on that same drive, I also remembered the very first experience of recognizable experience of my father being emotionally distancing himself.
Because we ate dinner at the kitchen table every single night, and I remember being again, in the single digits, and my father sitting at the table with us. But toward the end, before maybe 10, I remember my dad ate dinner at the living room with a TV tray, while the rest of us were at the kitchen table.
LEAH: It’s interesting what you were saying about that emotional distance, because I experienced during different parts of my life, I experienced the emotional distance with my dad, and then the actual physical distance, and then various combinations. And in a lot of ways I think the emotional distance was always harder for me to handle than the physical distance because it’s like, “You’re right there. How come I can’t reach you?”
STACEY: Yes. I definitely relate to that and I think up until now, I discounted that. I knew the mother’s stuff, and that was what I thought those were the prominent things, but I think that it was easier for me to access my discontentment with my mom because she was so available, so I could be mad at her.
LEAH: Yes. I know exactly what you mean.
LEAH: I spent so many years being mad at my mother when really, it was my father that was the total shitshow.
STACEY: Yes, yes. [LAUGHTER]
STACEY: It’s funny. I wrote this quote down yesterday watching a video. “Love makes us feel safe enough to be horrible.” And that was on one of those school of life videos, but in saying that, I think that that was the reason. This is the first time I’ve ever made this connection by the way.
STACEY: But I think that was the reason that I was able to work through my mother’s shit was because she was so available that I could give myself permission to be mad at her out loud, and be expressive about it, and express my dissatisfaction and my discontentment. And I have never done with my father.
LEAH: Oh my god. I so relate to so much of what you’re saying. I was able to be angry at my mother because I knew no matter how angry I got at her she would never leave.
LEAH: And that allowed me to express, even though I later began to understood, she was the hero of my
childhood. She was the one who made it possible for me to be as sane as I was. [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: Which any given day was maybe marginal, but it was really the issues with my dad were so overwhelming that I had no idea how to handle them. And for me, my dad passed away when I was 26 so I never had the opportunity to really delve into that with him. I’m not sure he would have been able to go there with me, but I really understand what you’re saying like wanting to be able to really show up and be like, “Okay, here is what it is so that I don’t have to be afraid of losing my sense of self if you disagree with me.”
STACEY: Yeah, because I don’t think my dad can, and this might be a story because I don’t know by fact, but I don’t think my dad can show up for the conversation. I’m not certain that he will be able to be accountable and I’m not expecting him to. I’m not expecting him to, so that’s the reason I got to process enough to be unattached because maybe the opportunity may never come. Maybe not, but I want to be able to, not because I really care how he receives, but I want to be able to feel good about the woman that I see in the mirror when I’m finished.
STACEY: It’s heavy shit though.
LEAH: It is.
LEAH: And I think we often don’t give nearly enough credence to how intensely this stuff spills over into our adult relationships.
STACEY: Oh my goodness, yes. When the initial wave of anger came over me, what triggered was it was now I’m going to have to work on this physical intimacy because of him.
STACEY: Now I have all this work to do because what I don’t want to do is like relationships are really important to me, like I love my work. I love life but what I really want to be as masterful I possibly can about in this lifetime is being good at relationships. Because there’s nothing else. Relationships are about business. Relationships are about personal. Relationships are about love. Your relationship when you check out at the grocery store, like there is no thing that doesn’t include relationships, however brief or however long, and I want to be able to be the best version that I possibly can in my relationship with people, because relationships are fucking optional. So, I want people to want to be in relationship with me.
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STACEY: And I have a daughter, so a lot of when were asking me about what my childhood was like and how that impacted me, well, because of that and because for whatever reason and I was barely 22 when I had a kid.
And it was really important for me to raise her to not be frigid and to be very mindful of the fact that sex was pleasurable and you had to be responsible. I did not want her to grow up feeling like she needed to be more concerned about STDs and getting pregnant, than she was about her pleasure because all of those things are important. And I wanted her to feel really empowered and I have to say, I was successful.
LEAH: That’s awesome. I’m curious. You said you didn’t want her to be frigid. That’s a word that we don’t hear quite so much anymore. What does that mean to you?
STACEY: I knew so many women and of course, this is my 20 something self, that were not experiencing pleasure, and that sex was already this thing that they avoided and that they didn’t want, and so for whatever reason, I don’t know why it was so important to me, because my mom’s a sexual person and again, she wasn’t as expressive as I was, but I was aware that she was sexual. And so, it wasn’t like I had that as an example. I didn’t want her to be one of those people that people said behind her back like, “She needs to get laid so bad.”
STACEY: I don’t want her to be one of those people, because you know those people and when people say it, they say it jokingly, but it’s true because you can tell when someone is well fucked and when they aren’t. Energetically you can tell, you don’t have to be talking about sex. You can tell in the way that they carry themselves, in the way that they relate to other people. You can just tell. I did not want my daughter to be one of those people. I don’t know why that was important but it was.
LEAH: So, let’s go back and talk about some of your relationships. We talked about the first time you had sex. When was the first time that you had a real relationship that was an important emotional connection for you?
STACEY: My first real that guy I called him by boyfriend, but that was just because I was trying not to feel hoe-ish about fucking him but I didn’t really like him that much. We’re not in contact anymore so I hope he doesn’t hear this.
STACEY: I didn’t really like him that much. And then the second guy, I was completely smitten with. He and I are actually still friends, but we were like a couple for a couple of months and then he broke up with me, which was heartbreaking. So then, after that though, I had what I can consider my first real boyfriend, because it was reciprocal, and he really loved me, and we were together for several years. It was passionate and volatile and great and awful.
STACEY: We had a great time and sometimes we were like the worst people to one another. It was like young romance but he loved me and I actually broke up with him because I felt like he wasn’t being productive enough because I thought I was grown and shit.
STACEY: And so, I broke up with him. And after that, I met who would be my husband, my daughter’s father, and in our very first date, I was like, “He’s going to be my husband.” We are not together anymore but we are still really great friends.
LEAH: I’m curious. You said that in your first relationship things were really volatile. Things were really great and they were really awful, really passionate. Do you feel like those two things go together, the sexual passion and the sort of emotional volatility?
STACEY: I think that we were both young. We argued about stupid shit and I remember being moody and picking fights about stuff, but we were under 20.
LEAH: So then, have you been able to find that sort of level of sexual passion without, that is not coupled with that level of emotional volatility?
STACEY: Yes. I had a really long-term lover who was just so fucking good in bed. And in fact, we were never a couple. We were never a couple. We were great friends who happened to fuck, and we never had any arguments, so I can’t say that it was because there was not a high level of responsibility to one another in that relationship. Recently, I had a lover and it was so interesting that he was only the second person that I had ever been with that I was equally aroused and annoyed in simultaneously.
STACEY: It was combustible though. It was like you knew that it could not last and it only lasted for 3 months, because it was too combustible like the first 30 days, I was like, “I have argued with you more than I have anybody in the last 5 years.” And he didn’t know how to disagree, and he was a man-child, honestly.
LEAH: So, where are you now in your dating and sex life?
STACEY: Right now, I was married for 12 years and so, I’ve been single for almost a year, and I don’t know if I was ever monogamous. I don’t think I was, and now, I am grown enough to not feel like I have to fit in that box.
STACEY: So, like now, I’m single so I’m practicing ethical non-monogamy. I do have two lovers that are both partnered, and I love them both, but I would like to meet someone single and be able to have a primary partner. That would be lovely.
LEAH: So, when you say you don’t think you were ever monogamous, does that mean that you are practicing non-ethical non-monogamy (i.e. cheating) or does that mean you were performing monogamy but not actually monogamous at your core?
STACEY: I’m both. LEAH: Okay. [LAUGHTER]
STACEY: I have been a cheater, and I’ve been married twice, and between my marriages, I avoided being someone’s girlfriend because of that. And so, I’d rather not have a label smacked on my forehead is what I thought. I didn’t realize yet that I could be open and I could just tell the truth.
STACEY: I could just tell the truth. Now, I’m very open like when I meet someone, I tell them, “I do have lovers and are you okay with that? And if you aren’t, I understand.” But even before, I became aware like in my last marriage, from the beginning, fidelity was never a condition of being with me.
And so from the beginning, I would tell him. Like he liked to dance. He liked to Latin dance, which can be very provocative and I would say like, “When you go out dancing, your body might respond to the person you’re dancing with and if you feel like you want to do something about it, just take care of yourself because if you take care of yourself, you’re taking care of me.”
LEAH: That’s lovely.
STACEY: I’m not sure if he ever decided to do that but it was always available to him.
LEAH: Again, this podcast is called Good Girls Talk About Sex because I have always been such an incredibly good girl, and then it’s only been in the last couple of years that I have taken a deep dive into sexuality, sexual autonomy, and opening all that up for myself and in the process, I’ve learned about non-monogamy as an option.
It was not even something that I really understood was an option for people. All I knew was that some people were committed and some people cheated and it never occurred that cheating was actually just non-monogamy where people were not telling the truth.
LEAH: Like it was possible to do that and have it be healthy and have it be okay with everybody involved.
STACEY: Absolutely and when it works, it’s a beautiful thing. I have a lover that is so amazing. In fact, just yesterday, I said, “You know I just need you to clone yourself twice and then my life will be so much easier.”
He’s an amazing person. He’s an amazing husband and an amazing father. I love the way he loves his wife so much, and he is generous with his love, and he’s generous with his attention. I know where the lines are, and I have no interest in crossing them, and I respect their union, and it’s just great. It’s great. I don’t feel any jealousy about it at all.
LEAH: Do you have a relationship with her at all?
STACEY: I do not. I would love to meet her. I haven’t met her in person. She’s an amazing person, what I’ve seen of her through his eyes is absolutely amazing, but she is absolutely aware of my existence and so, it’s not a secret.
LEAH: You would like at some point to meet someone who would become a primary partner. Did I interpret that correctly?
STACEY: I would like that, because there’s only so much, at least in my experience, it doesn’t mean it’s everyone who practices non-monogamy or polyamory. But in my experience, there’s only so much emotional growth that can happen when you are with partnered partners.
LEAH: Oh, interesting.
STACEY: At least for me, because there are things that don’t come up like for example, I did have with my last that little volatile thing I was explaining. We were trying to explore the potential of being primary partners so some of the things that come up though are like, “Okay, I’m going on a date and what would you like the protocol to be? Do you want me to talk to you immediately following the date?”
And then he asked, “Well, do you plan to have sex with this person?” And I was like, “No, I’m not planning to have sex with this person. I don’t know if there’s going to be enough chemistry for that but even if it is, I’ve already told you that I’m not going to have sex with this person, so if that’s something
that’s going to be entertained, it will be a conversation between you and I before I move forward with that person.” Whereas, that’s not a conversation that I have with a partnered partner.
LEAH: Where you are a secondary or a non-primary partner? STACEY: Exactly.
LEAH: Yeah. Like I said, the title of this podcast is Good Girls Talk About Sex. So, I would love to hear you talk about what did the words good girl mean to you as a child and what do they mean to you now?
STACEY: I had a friend when I was in 8th grade, and she was way more sexually advanced than I was. Like I was just still reading about sex aside from masturbating, and I had stopped making out with relatives by then.
STACEY: So at that point, the only thing that I was having was my own self exploration but I wasn’t having anything with other people. But this particular friend, she had already had sex and she had already given blow jobs. And I remember her getting a reputation at school.
As a child, a good girl meant that you didn’t do those things. Now, I didn’t think anything was wrong with what she was doing. I remember asking her questions because she had done things that I hadn’t done, so I wanted to know about blow jobs, and how do you relax your throat, and how do you keep from throwing up and that kind of thing.
So I didn’t think anything wrong with what she was doing, but everyone else did. And so now, I just think that that’s bullshit. I think it’s all bullshit. It’s just a matter being where you’re at, whatever your mature enough, however much responsibility sexually you’re mature enough to handle at any given moment, whether that’s even just the responsibility of taking good care of yourself, whatever that looks like. So now, I don’t have any judgment around people that are sexual or how early they’re sexual because it is the most natural thing. Life is literally sexually transmitted.
LEAH: Before we let Stacey go, let’s do the Quick Five. Five quick questions that we’d usually be too polite to ask anyone.
LEAH: Approximate number of partners? STACEY: Oh shit.
STACEY: Over 30.
LEAH: Okay. Favorite sex position?
STACEY: I love being on top because I can get maximum pressure and my clit gets a lot of stimulation if I’m riding it right, I can rub my G-spot. It’s like all the things.
LEAH: All right. Favorite sex toy? STACEY: Hands.
LEAH: Sex during your period? STACEY: Yes. Lots.
LEAH: Do you have hair down there or are you bare? STACEY: Nope. I got hair everywhere. I’m over that shit. [LAUHGTER]
STACEY: I don’t shave shit anymore.
LEAH: I love it.
STACEY: If you want to be with this, you got to be ready to go to the jungle. It’s fine. [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: Do you have single orgasms or are you multi orgasmic?
STACEY: I am so fucking multi orgasmic like bottomless well.
LEAH: Have you always been that way? And dear god, how do I become that way? [LAUHGTER]
STACEY: Well, it’s gotten more like when I was younger, no. In my 20s, I don’t think maybe one or two but now, and this might be useful to you, one of the things is that staying in the room, making sure that my presence is where I’m at and I focus my attention wherever I’m feeling sensation.
And so if someone’s doing something to my clit, then that’s where my attention is at. And in doing that I am able to feel so much. And also priming my nervous system when I’m not being sexual, so like even in the shower, I play with the temperature just so that my nervous system can expand, because sometimes the reason that we can’t be multi orgasmic is because we constrict too much. And our instinct when something gets too good or too sensitive is to clench up and to tighten.
Well, orgasms do not squeeze out of tight spaces. So, if we can relax into any sensation that we’re feeling, then we can ride the wave of orgasm and rather than every single one feeling like a crash.
LEAH: Fascinating. Thank you for sharing.
STACEY: You’re welcome. Look, I want you to have a lot of orgasms.
LEAH: Dear god, me too.
LEAH: At least I’m having orgasms now.
LEAH: Better than it used to be. Do you swallow or not?
STACEY: I do swallow when I choose. I love fellatio when I really like the person and also when I’m aware of the kinds of fluids that the person eats.
LEAH: All right.
LEAH: How much noise do you make during sex?
STACEY: I’m not super noisy but I like to talk and I like to be talked to. LEAH: Oh, what kinds of talk do you like?
STACEY: I really like for the person to be whispering in my ear so that I’m hearing, but I’m also feeling the sensation of their breath on my ear, so that adds arousal for me. But I love for them to tell me what they’re doing or what it feels like or what they like to do.
LEAH: Yeah, Dan Savage, whose work I am a huge fan of often says that dirty talk is telling a person what you want to do to them, telling a person what you are doing to them and then telling the person what you just did to them.
STACEY: Yes. I’ve never heard that before but yes, all of that. LEAH: Yeah.
STACEY: All of that.
LEAH: Awesome. Do you prefer penetration or clit stimulation?
STACEY: Actually, I prefer to be penetrated. I like thumbs better than fingers, and the reason is because if someone is laying parallel to you and they insert their thumb. So say you’re on the left side and the other person’s on the right side, then they would insert that thumb inside, and then I can squeeze my legs together. And so I can get the inside of my clitoris stimulated, and the outside stimulated at the same time, and it makes for the most delicious orgasms ever.
LEAH: Nice, I like that.
STACEY: It’s so amazing.
LEAH: All right. Do you prefer to be the giver or the receiver of sexual pleasure?
STACEY: I like to be both. Yeah, I like to be both. I really love giving pleasure, because it’s such a power trip, and I love being the receiver of pleasure also.
LEAH: Yeah. Awesome. That’s it. We’ve done it. Is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you would like to talk about?
STACEY: Hmm. No, this was very revealing.
LEAH: Well, I have loved every moment of it.
STACEY: Yes, I’ve enjoyed it. You know I don’t get to be on the receiving end very often, and so I think this may be the most revealing interview I’ve ever done.
LEAH: Oh, yay! STACEY: Yes.
LEAH: Well, thank you so much for opening up and really being willing to reveal yourself. STACEY: Thank you for your great questions. This was beautiful. I’m so excited about this.
LEAH: Thanks for joining me today on Good Girls Talk About Sex. If you have questions or comments about something you’ve heard or if you’d like to record a voice memo for use in a future episode, send them to firstname.lastname@example.org. Also, let me know if you’d like to be a guest on a future episode. You can find links to all of the resources mentioned today on the Show Notes.
I’m Leah Carey and I look forward to talking with you again next week.
Here are some of the great moments Stacey shared:
- 5:18 – Learning how to kiss with a cousin
- 13:30 – The lack of affection in her childhood home
- 15:45 – How her father’s emotional absence affects Stacey in her adult relationships
- 23:12 – Raising a daughter to believe in her own sexual empowerment
- 29:22 – Stacey discusses ethical non-monogamy
- 38:15 – THE QUICK FIVE
If you’d like to hear the full, unedited version of this interview, become a community supporter at Patreon.
Editor – Gretchen Kilby
Music by – Nazar Rybak