Margot is a 39-year-old, cisgender woman who describes herself as black, British, bisexual and currently in an open, long-distance relationship.

She also travels widely and lives for extended periods in other parts of the world, giving her insight into different sexual cultures around the world.

Major themes in this episode include open relationships, later-in-life sexual explorations, and learning about sexuality in a culture that was not open about the subject.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT (CLICK TO OPEN)

LEAH: Hi, I’m Leah Carey and this is Good Girls Talk About Sex. This is a place to share conversations with all sorts of women about their experience of sexuality. Before we get started, I want to tell you these. These are unfiltered conversations between adult women talking about sex. If anything about the previous sentence offends you, turn back now! And if you’re looking for a trigger warning, you’re not going to get it from me. I believe that you are stronger than the trauma you have experienced. I have faith in your ability to deal with the things that upset you. Sound good? Let’s start the show!

[MUSIC]

LEAH: In today’s episode, we’ll meet Margot, a 39 year old cisgender woman who describes herself as Black, British, bisexual and currently in an open relationship. She also travels widely and lives for extended periods in other parts of the world. I’m so pleased to introduce Margot!

Thank you so much for being with me today. I’m really excited to have this conversation with you. MARGOT: I don’t know if I’m excited or terrified.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: I think both are appropriate.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: It’s not talked about enough so it’s a worthy cause.

LEAH: Awesome. Well, thank you for being here. So the first question I want to ask you about is how you discovered sex whatever that means to you?

MARGOT: So when I went to school we had Sex Ed. So I went to Catholic school so we got the whole tampon and the glass tube thing and that’s all I really remember about that. I don’t remember if they actually told me about sex. They might have but it was a while ago so I don’t remember.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: And as far as my parents were concerned, it was definitely not talked about and actually my parents slept in separate bedrooms. Once I think I remember as a kid randomly walking into, looking back now was sex, but that was once in my entire childhood.

LEAH: Was that something usual among your friends that your parents slept separately or do you think that was very particular to their relationship?

MARGOT: It was very specific. There were a couple of things with their relationship. One was my dad snores and two they had semi-different schedules and three they were not a happy marriage.

LEAH: Are they still together?

MARGOT: I have no idea. I left home at 17 and I’d never go back.

LEAH: Oh wow. So you really were out on your own very young.

MARGOT: Yup.

LEAH: I interrupted you. I’m interested to hear more about how that developed. But I interrupted you about the question of how did you discover sex?

MARGOT: Oh yeah, and so now that I’m thinking about it. I’m not really sure how. I had a friend. I used to work at McDonalds and I had a friend who slept with lots of people and so she’d tell me about it but I didn’t have an actual knowledge and this was before the Internet. So it’s not like I was looking on TV or what have you. There are a couple of instances that I remember stick out in my mind. One was back in the day it was VCRs and I was the one in the household that knew how to work a VCR to record I don’t know whatever it might be, events, that sort of the thing. It so happened that I went to record something for my mom and there was a video stuck in the VCR like it made a mess. I then discovered later that it was a porn video that my dad had been watching and my mom lost it.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: That was one thing I remember. And then a second thing I remember was I was a dancer and so I used to spend a lot of time travelling around dancing. And there was one time that we slept over at my friend’s house and she had this big mansion thing and we all had beddings and sort of the thing and we were all paired up with different people. And I was paired up with my friend and we slept in the same bed but ended up cuddling and I must have been 15 or 16 at that stage.

But it was very interesting because we were all swapping clothes and getting to see everyone’s bodies and that sort of thing. It wasn’t a sexual nature but it was also kind of like at that stage of life, some people have boobs, some people don’t, these whole differences. And so I don’t know if it was a sexual

thing per say but I do remember touching each other and comparing. But as for sex-sex like losing my virginity, that happened when I was 17 with obviously now my ex-boyfriend.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: And I think I read a bit about it. I was basically under the impression that it was better to be slightly drunk and do it with someone who has had sex before because my ex-boyfriend had had previous girlfriends and so that was my plan was to find someone who had sex before I do that thing.

LEAH: And how did that work out for you choosing someone who had sex before and being slightly drunk?

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: I had Jell-O shots so I don’t really think I was probably drunk. [LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: It worked from what I can remember it was a while ago. It worked out fine. It wasn’t painful. It was a little weird and uncomfortable because you don’t know what to expect. You don’t know what to feel and there wasn’t enough information out there for me at that time to sort of research. I didn’t even have the bad porn area to look at. I just had nothing and I didn’t really have friends per say that that would be a conversation I would have.

LEAH: It sounds like you had sex because you just wanted to have sex not because you were in a relationship with someone who you were so in love with that this was the next logical step.

MARGOT: Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: There was an agenda.

LEAH: And were you happy once it w as complete? Were you happy that you had done it that way? MARGOT: I don’t know if I happy is the right word. It was just done. That was that.

LEAH: Did you have continue to have sex with him?

MARGOT: Yeah, we were together for about a year. A year and a half I think. Yes.

LEAH: Did it get better over time?

MARGOT: Probably. I don’t remember. I don’t remember anything negative so that’s probably a good thing.

LEAH: And let’s talk about masturbation. Had you discovered masturbation before you had sex? MARGOT: No.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: When did you figure that out?

MARGOT: Okay, so I hadn’t figured out masturbation. I did have I guess the equivalent of wet dreams from maybe 8 or 9. I remember sort of waking up and feeling a little weird. Not necessarily knowing what that was, I just remember feeling weird and that definitely happened about 8 or 9 onwards and it still happens. But as far as masturbation is concerned, it must have been after I was married and divorced.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Oh, wow.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: This was interesting. [LAUGHTER]

LEAH: That’s why we have these conversations here because we don’t talk about this. So you went through an entire marriage without having sort of explored self pleasure and maybe even what your own body desired.

MARGOT: Correct. And it was a ten year marriage.

LEAH: Oh wow. God, I have so many questions.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So how old were you after you got divorced around the time you did discover it?

MARGOT: Okay. So I got married when I was 18. I got divorced when I was 28 so 29? 30? I was in the process of getting divorced. I was separated. I was in a different country. And because my husband had

only slept with me, I felt like I hadn’t experienced anything. So I slept with two people, my ex boyfriend and my husband. And so my next mission should I choose to accept it was to find someone who had a butt load of experience and try and learn some stuff. And I kind of had Internet access now but still not the way I have Internet access today. I still am in a country where people don’t really talk about it so it makes it slightly difficult. In fact, people would come to me to talk about it assuming that I knew because I was the foreigner. And I was kind of just like, “Oh, I’ve been married for ten years.”

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: And to this day, I’m still learning it. It’s an ongoing process.

LEAH: You mentioned that you had gotten married at 18, you had only one prior sexual partner, so going into that marriage, I assume not having a ton of experience about what you enjoy and how your body works, how did you navigate sex in that marriage? Was it pleasurable for you? Did you know how to advocate for your desires?

MARGOT: I didn’t know what my desires were so no need for advocating. [LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: Did I enjoy it? Yes. I didn’t get to learn how to give blow jobs. It was kind of awesome because he was so big in my mouth. This is useless because people won’t see a video but I cannot put kind of this, like it isn’t going to happen.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: So I didn’t know about that. It got to the point where I was 30 something and I was asking my best friend at the time. I was kind of like, “Hey, you do that blow job thing, tips?” And she’s like, “How old are you and what the hell?” So it was fun. It was pleasurable. It was fine.

There were some side issues. It was a lack of knowledge on both sides. So my husband comes from an African country. I’m just going to say Africa because if I say it it’s very specific. And so there was a whole other thing there as well because in that particular country, it was known for having multiple marriages and weddings and that sort of a thing and also he worked for the family so he never really ever have his own space. And this marriage was in a foreign country because we were in Europe and so there were a lot of other things that came along with that. And then other members of his family came over and so we were never living alone and it was just a lot of different things and education and money and jobs. Because when you move to another country, you come work straight away and so there were a lot of different things mixed in with sex.

LEAH: Yeah, was the sex good?

MARGOT: Yeah. We had fun. It was fine. We were both happy but then again we had no real baseline so what you don’t know can’t hurt you.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So I want to talk some about your relationship with your body and how that had affected your relationship with sex. What is your relationship with your body and has that changed through the years?

MARGOT: Well right now almost hitting 40. Things have changed. Things they also don’t tell you about. [LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: Small things. I used to be able to zip up my dresses and now it’s just that little bit harder. But from a sex standpoint, I now have friends that I talk to about these sorts of things. I now pay more attention to my body, my periods. I had some scares with some stuff. I’ve had a miscarriage and I didn’t know I was pregnant. I never had a miscarriage. I found it out later because again, there’s no information about that.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: And as far as my sexuality, I got to explore being with women, being with men, being with groups, being with couples, toys, fetishes, going to events, going to play parties. I got to get a bunch of stuff and it’s awesome and I still get to do it. But life and time also get in the way. I still have to have a job and earn money and be in the right country for all the stuff I’m talking about, not doing it in the country I’m currently in.

LEAH: Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: So that’s a thing but I do it in other countries with other people and so actually what I ended up with is a network around the world of people that I visit and talk to and do stuff with, which is quite nice.

LEAH: So you mentioned before we started taping that you’re currently in an open relationship. So how does that work for you?

MARGOT: Great. It’s open for various reasons so one of the reasons is that we live in different countries. One of the other reasons is he has family stuff and so wants to stay around for that. He doesn’t necessarily want to live where he’s living but because of the situation that his family is in, that’s what he’s doing at this time. I have no desire to live in that particular country.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: And also because when we started dating, it was long distance in the first place. So nothing’s really changed. We both spent quite a lot of time in each other’s houses and a good amount of time traveling together. And so it was open to start with because we first started dating we weren’t really dating. We just realized we spent a year around the same cities around the world and so I guess we’re dating. It was an accident, a happy accident. But we just sort of fell into a relationship rather than purposely being “I’m going to date you.”

We also have two different kinds of jobs that don’t facilitate it being easy to date. People have 9 to 5 jobs. And so it works out really well. I have more flexibility but we both have flexibility to travel. We both have flexibility to be in each other’s countries without too much red tape and hassle so like 2 and 3 months, not like 6 months to a year sort of thing. And with this open thing, I still get to sleep with women, so I don’t know if I get more out of it, I think it depends on what country we’re in and what we’re doing and sometimes we’re just too busy working.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: So it’s not open necessarily because we have to have it open. It’d probably be monogamous for the past year or so but not with intention, it just happens. But if there’s an opportunity then we would do something else.

LEAH: And so that’s interesting. You said that it allows you to continue sleeping with women. If you have an established relationship with a man, is your interest in having your extracurriculars primarily with women? Is all your energy for a man taken up with your partner?

MARGOT: I would say 80% of the time, yes. But I would say there’s that odd 10% where we’re in a different country or something happens but yeah, I would say that’s about right.

LEAH: Yeah, interesting. So how often do you and your partner get to see each other?

MARGOT: It’s about every month or so but for like two weeks or a month. For example, this year we spent January and February together in my place. We spent some of March in his place. April, we’re apart. May, we’re together in his place and then it’s my place, May, June. I’m spending June up there, a part of July. August we’re going to be apart. Half of September we’re going to be apart then September, October we’re going to be travelling together around the world. Then November we might be apart, we haven’t figured that out yet. December we’re going to be together.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: It’s funny you said scheduling with poly seems like a lot to me. That seems like a lot too.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: But I love to travel and he loves to travel so it’s all good.

LEAH: How does the energy of the relationship maintain between times of seeing each other when you see each other, do you have to get to know each other again? Or it’s already always right there?

MARGOT: Yeah, it’s always right there.

LEAH: And what do you do to maintain that connection when you’re not together? Are you sexting? Are you video chatting? Are you having phone sex? How do you maintain that sexual connection when you’re not together?

MARGOT: So we’ve been together for about 7 or 8 years. To start with, there was a lot of messaging, a lot of photos. He’d be masturbating and I’d be messaging. We used to do that a lot but the problem is it takes freaking time so we have to stop.

And over the years, it’s gotten less because we’re at a stage where both of our businesses, we can’t afford to take two hours off to just be like “I’ll just sit here” and like I said, where he lives, not kind of the thing that you want to be doing. Right now, it’s the case of these expectations. He’s the adventurous one in so far as, “Hey, I’ve got a new app. Look I’ve found this new thing.”

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: He’s more of the extrovert and I’m more of the introvert so he always want to meet new people and he’s always trying stuff and I’m like “Uh, not again.”

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: I like to hang out. We almost had to make rules like, “Okay, when I see you, can I at least get a date? Before you go like oh, look at all this stuff!”

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Recently, RedCat981 left a review on Apple Podcasts saying, “I have learned so much since I started listening to Leah and her guests. We all have a right to enjoy sex and it’s so important for us to communicate if that’s not happening. Or even if it is, everyone likes to be encouraged. I love it!”

Thanks, RedCat. I love you! If, like Red Cat, you want more of these open and honest conversations about female sexuality, become a community supporter at Patreon and unlock lots more of Good Girls Talking About Sex. This week’s rewards are at the 1 dollar a month level, you’ll receive my everlasting gratitude and affection. At the 5 dollar a month level, Margot shares some fascinating insights into

relationship norms that she has observed in other cultures around the world. At the 7 dollar a month level, it’s the extended Q and A. And, as always, at the 10 dollar a month level, you’ll get all of that plus a monthly ask me anything.

Plus, for season 2, 10% of all Patreon donations I receive are going to ARC-Southeast, an organization that provides financial and logistical support to people seeking reproductive health services in the Southeastern United States where safe services are being legislated out of existence. To learn more and become a community supporter, visit Patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex. And, if you know someone who would love to hear this conversation with Margot, please take a moment and share this episode with them right now. Thanks!

[MUSIC]

MARGOT: For him, it’s a fun thing, the sex is a fun thing. Well even with other people, it’s just entertainment for him. Whereas for me, I have a different approach I guess. When I’m going out and having sex, it’s very much almost like Domino’s Pizza where I’m like, “Okay, that person, 30 minutes in, do whatever and leave.” Whereas he’ll be like have dates and be all nice and be charming and sweet so he’s very much that person very much to that point.

LEAH: That’s really interesting to hear you describe different approaches to the sex. That’s not something I’ve talked to people about before but it’s really interesting that we do all have sort of our own way that we fit sex into our lives.

MARGOT: Yes. And it’s something that we struggled in our relationship for a bit because you always want the other person to think and feel exactly the same way you do and I was like, “Why are you spending so much time? You say you don’t have time and it’s been hours texting this person. I don’t understand.”

And it took a while and a lot of conversation because at one point I was like, “You spend more time talking to them and I’m right here.” But it just took sort of talking and understanding and being open to understanding it from a different point of view which can be really hard sometimes.

LEAH: Very hard. Do you remember the kinds of conversations you had that helped you to get to that understanding of each other?

MARGOT: I had to ask a lot of questions. I had to ask especially it’s because one side, the messaging, the second side, the complaining or as soon as I see there’s going to be a message and like, “Wow that’s my afternoon done because you’re going to be messaging.” So it was a case of “Okay why are you doing this? What’s your intention behind it?”

Because there’s also times when we’re in separate countries, it would make more sense for me to kind of date somebody in your own country, just saying. And so there was that, “If that’s what you want to

do, that’s fine but let me know because be polite.” And so there was also that thing that came into it but there was asking questions, asking why, asking why again, asking why in different situations, also making sure I wasn’t asking when I know I’m on my period.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: I have to pick. It was a loading process. But also I had a habit, I’ve gotten better at it actually, of waiting to talk to him when we saw each other and I’d have this list of stuff and he would feel bombarded, understandably. I used to write long emails because I felt that I could explain myself better in an email or I’d wait until we’re trapped in a car on a long road trip and have the conversation because I wouldn’t have to look him the eye to have the conversation because my face is very expressive. And so I don’t want him to see any of this while I’m talking about this other stuff. So there were a lot of things that happened and there was a progression. And then I asked him the questions where I’m trying to understand from a different point of view and also explaining my point of view without degrading the other person’s feelings which is also super hard.

LEAH: What types of agreements or boundaries or rules do you have to make your open relationship work?

MARGOT: So this has evolved over time but right now the rules are be safe, rule number one. LEAH: Do you have any specifics of what that means?

MARGOT: So yeah, condoms are a must. Blow jobs, not happening unless there’s a condom involved. I mean people can lie, but ask the people about their sexual experiences, if they check regularly for STDs, the last time they got checked, if we could see that, that would be great.

Then the other rules are kind of they should be someone who you see regularly. It should be someone who you see once a week because then you might not think you are in a relationship, but you kind of are because you’re seeing them often than you’re seeing me. It’s good if it’s someone who has met me. It’s gotten to that stage because yes, I’m a real human being. Yes, I’m here a lot of the time. And because of past experiences, I didn’t care to start with, “Yeah whatever I trust you.”

But when it kept happening time and time again, we meet people and then they ghost. I’m not a bad human and I treat them really, really nicely. It’s better if they’re upfront. If it’s upfront, “I don’t want anything to do with your girlfriend”, that’s so much better, so much better. Just be upfront about it, just be like, “I’m not interested in your girlfriend, I’m interested in you.” That’s totally fine because you can still sleep with her. They don’t have to sleep with me. That’s not even part of the equation. But people aren’t very upfront with what they want sometimes.

LEAH: Yeah, absolutely.

MARGOT: And if they are, that’s great.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: Any other rules? Generally, three days before I turn up, he can wait.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: Or three days before he turns up, I can wait. No group sex. That’s kind of it.

LEAH: Do you remember how you felt about your body the first time you had sex? Were there any nerves about how you looked to your partner?

MARGOT: No, that was never a thing. That’s probably more of a thing now than it was then. LEAH: Okay. That’s my next question. What’s it like now?

MARGOT: So my partner is younger than me. However he looks older, he’s getting gray hair and stuff and I am not.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: And it’s always funny when people ask our age. If they don’t know anything about me, it’s different when I say, ”Oh I was married for ten years and I did this other thing” then you do the math. But if you don’t know these things about me, we look the same age or I look younger.

But I’m more conscious of my body now because I’m getting older, I’ve seen the changes. I’ve seen the changes, can I be bothered to do all that exercise that I should do? Meh, it means going out and also where I am. I used to go to the gym when I used to work in corporate and I just get looked at because I look so different here and then it makes you feel uncomfortable that you don’t want to go to the gym. So the likely of going to the gym is nil. I’m lucky that if I put on weight, I put on weight everywhere. It’s like, “Hey I have more stomach than I used to.”

I’m never going to have a dancer’s body again but I’m okay with that but I am a little self conscious. I’m also more self conscious of smells and that sort of thing. Only because I feel like I smell far more than my partner does. My partner doesn’t seem to notice and I’m very much like, “I’m going to go shower. I’m still going to go shower.”

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: It takes out the spontaneity but I’ve gotten more paranoid in my old age and I’m not really sure why. It was interesting because I read a thread recently and it was what are the things people

should know about sex that they didn’t know? And one comment was that vaginas are so acidic that they will stain your underwear and it’s normal. No one talks about that.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. I remember the first time I read some version of that and my mind was blown because I always thought there was something terribly wrong with me.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: Part of my body shouldn’t disintegrate stuff. That’s not right.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: It was great to see that and people going, “Really? Is that a thing? Oh!” Because your partner sees it and they’re kind of like, “Oh, okay.”

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: “Do you have any in your underwear? I’m not sure even if it disintegrates other parts of me.” [LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: Also, so I had a mini stroke when I was in my 20s so that made me more aware of my body too. So birth control, I’ve always been on birth control since about the age of after I got married so 18? I should have been on it earlier but because I’d stopped dancing, I started getting periods on a regular basis and they were ridiculously heavy and to the point that I would faint. And so I’ve been on birth control ever since and I don’t want kids so I’m very much okay with that.

So birth control is a thing, learning about masturbation. That’s a thing. Being bought toys now to play with, discovering things like choking or discovering that my nipples are super sensitive or discovering that it’s not a bad thing, discovering what an orgasm is.

Oh my God! So this was a thing that I discovered obviously in my 30s and I never got told what an orgasm was supposed to be, didn’t really watch porn, didn’t talk about it with anyone, didn’t know there were different types of orgasms. Not everyone has the same thing. Because I used to think that I didn’t orgasm. I enjoyed myself, it was fun but I had this misconception after reading some books of that “mountains crumble and everything feels wonderful.” And sometimes great, but that’s not always the case. And then I learned I was multi orgasmic and I was like, “Oh shit I’ve been missing out on this for decades.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: how did you discover that?

MARGOT: My ex-boyfriend had a girlfriend who orgasmed once and then was done. And he’s like, “You

keep cumming, you know that’s what you’re doing, right?” I’m like, “Oh, okay. Thanks.” LEAH: So you were doing it, you just didn’t know?

MARGOT: I just didn’t know.

LEAH: Oh that’s interesting.

MARGOT: And then he made it his mission so, “Okay we need to figure this out.” [LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: So that was interesting, realizing that some men are really bad at giving instructions at giving blow jobs and just kind of sit there. And because that was the first person I was giving blow jobs to, I thought that’s kind of how it went. And then discovering other men who were awesome and give feedback and say stuff and so that changed my mind. Because I was totally over blow jobs, I was like, “Yeah that’s not a thing I want to do. I don’t care.” I’m still not a huge fan of it but depending on who I’m with, it’ll make it better or worse.

LEAH: I’m a big fan of being given instructions because I don’t like doing something if I don’t know if I’m good at it.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And so if I’m giving a blow job to a man and he’s not giving me any feedback, my assumptions is that I’m not doing it well so I’m not going to do it.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: My current partner has been great about giving me instructions. I know exactly what he likes and now he’s like, “Oh I love that and so it’s awesome.” So to any people with penises who are listening to this, feedback, such a good thing.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: Please, please, the silence thing is such a turn off. How am I supposed to enjoy this with you if I can’t see or hear that you’re enjoying it? How is this fun for me?

LEAH: Exactly. Yeah. [LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: So that’s a thing. Women are certainly different. Women give a lot of feedback. From the women I’ve slept with, well except for one or two, it’s been more soft and about exploring the body and kissing and that sort of thing. It tends to be very different apart for a few of my friends where they’re far too similar which is fun actually. It’s fun finding someone who is similar to you because you get to explore on someone else. I mean exploring yourself is great but exploring on someone who is similar to you so you’re like, “I’m not crazy when this thing happens or when I do this thing.” It’s fascinating.

LEAH: I love that. So what kinds of touch do you most enjoy sexual touch?

MARGOT: So what I’ve discovered over the years is that any part of my body is sensitive. I’ve had someone lick me which I didn’t realize was happening and under normal circumstances, I would have been like “Uh, no.” But it was great.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: Yeah, anywhere in my body, it’s going to be weird for this. Look at my arm.

LEAH: Inside of your elbow?

MARGOT: Yes, the inside of my elbow. The crook of my arms, the outside is the weirdness but I don’t know the inside.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: Inside of my thighs, my legs, my ankles, my feet, doesn’t really matter, as long as it’s light and I don’t mean heavy touch, I mean light touch, I find is wonderful for me.

LEAH: So as long as it’s light, it could be scratching or tickling or different qualities of touch as long as they’re light?

MARGOT: Yup, minus the tickling. LEAH: Oh okay.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: All right, and what about your red hard lines? What are some of the things that you just absolutely don’t do?

MARGOT: Tickling.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: What do I hate? Anything to my ears. People put tongues in ears. No. Any bodily fluids.

LEAH: Well, when you say that, what does that mean? You don’t want ejaculate on you or does that mean pee and poop?

MARGOT: Okay, you’re right. Pee, poop, vomit, blood, no. Ejaculate below the neckline generally it makes me dry heave. Not my thing. What else is a hard no? I’m sure there is stuff that I just don’t know about but that’s kind of it I think.

LEAH: When did you realize that you were interesting in women or attracted to women? MARGOT: When I was about 16 or 17.

LEAH: So that was never a confusion for you?

MARGOT: No.

LEAH: It confused the hell out of me.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: It took me a really long time to come to terms with the fact. For a long time I thought, “Oh, I must be straight.” And then I thought, “Well I also kind of like girls so okay that must mean I’m a lesbian, but I also kind of like guys.” And there was no option for that in my world. It was terribly confusing that I couldn’t check one or the other box. It took me a really long time to come to the understanding that bisexual was also an acceptable option.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: I think it was never confusing for me because I never had to talk about my sexuality. It was assumed that I was straight because I was married at 18. And so it never really came up. I mean it came up with my husband because we’ve gone out a couple of nights and he’s like, “That girl is looking at you and you’re looking at her, what is that?” But it was never really brought outside of that. Because once you’re married, people make assumptions.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Before we finish up, let’s do the Quick Five. Five quick questions we’d usually be too polite to ask any good girl.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Do you schedule sex or is it spontaneous?

MARGOT: A bit of both.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: You say that as if something’s bad about that.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: Yeah, a bit of both because of work or because sometimes we get so lost that if we don’t do this, we’ll go and play games or do something else.

LEAH: Do you enjoy direct stimulation to the clit or do you prefer the hood being touched or not touched at all?

MARGOT: Ooh, combination of hood and clit but more hood probably.

LEAH: How do you feel when a partner loses or can’t get an erection? Or get wet if you’re with a

woman?

MARGOT: So what I would say is there’s no necessarily feeling about it. I would make sure that they’re okay. There’s no pressure because there’s so many other thousand different ways to pleasure me so not really an issue.

LEAH: Do you enjoy dirty talk during sexual encounters? MARGOT: Yes, I’m incredibly awkward at it.

LEAH: Oh, really? So you enjoying hearing it but not giving it or do you enjoy it both ways it’s just awkward?

MARGOT: I enjoy it both ways. I’m just terrible or I feel that I’m terrible at it.

LEAH: I have always felt the same way and what I have found helps is going to a site like Literotica and reading Literotica.

[LAUGHTER]

MARGOT: Yeah.

LEAH: And then reading and it puts some ideas in my head of some things that I might say.

MARGOT: Oh, all right. Thank you.

LEAH: You’re welcome.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: I’m here to serve.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Well, thank you so much for doing this. This has been such a pleasure to talk with you.

MARGOT: I’m glad that it’s useful and I’m glad that you got to talk about things that you hadn’t got to talk about before.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Thanks for joining me today on Good Girls Talk About Sex. If you have questions or comments about anything you’ve heard or if you’d like to be a guest on this show, please email me at leah@goodgirlstalkaboutsex.com.

I was only able to step outside my good girl box when someone I respected told me it was possible to do it. If you’d like to step outside your good girl box, I’m here to tell you it’s possible and I can provide you with tools to name your desires and communicate them effectively to your partner or potential partners. If you’re interesting in working with me, visit leahcarey.com/coaching.

You can find me on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at IamLeahCarey. You can find these links and any resources we’ve mentioned during the interview in the Show Notes. I’m Leah Carey and I look forward to talking with you again next week! Here’s to your better sex life!

[MUSIC]

Here are some of the great moments she shared with us:

  • 9:20 – Margot’s first experience of intercourse
  • 13:15 – Exploring sex post-divorce
  • 16:30 – Her relationship with her body and how it is changing with aging
  • 18:03 – Navigating an open relationship
  • 27:00 – The questions and communication that are required in their open relationship
  • 29:00 – The boundaries and agreements Margot has with her partner to make their open relationship work
  • 31:30 – Margot’s experience of body image
  • 34:30 – Discovering what an orgasm feels like

Quick 5:

  • 41:17 – Do you schedule sex or is it spontaneous?
  • 41:42 – Do you enjoy direct clit stimulation?
  • 41:54 – How do you feel when a partner loses or can’t get an erection?
  • 42:14 – Do you enjoy dirty talk?

The Patreon extras for this episode are:

  • At the $5/month level, Margot shares some fascinating insights into relationship norms that she has observed in other cultures around the world
  • At the $7/month level, that conversation plus the extended Q&A
  • At the $10/month level, all that plus a monthly Ask Me Anything!

To join the Patreon community, visit www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex

WANT TO SIGN UP FOR THE GROUP COACHING PROGRAM “5% BRAVER”? Visit www.leahcarey.com/five-percent.

If you like this show, please leave a rating and review at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/good-girls-talk-about-sex/id1436501617?mt=2.

Want to be on the show? Visit www.leahcarey.com/guest and let me know that you’re interested. I’d love to talk with you!

To learn about Sexual Communication Coaching, visit www.leahcarey.com/coaching

Host – Leah Carey (Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, email)

Editor – Gretchen Kilby

Music by – Nazar Rybak