Bad self-esteem but a great body – Danielle

LEAH: Hi, I’m Leah Carey and this is Good Girls Talk About Sex. This is a place to share conversations with all sorts of women about their experience of sexuality. Before we get started, I want to tell you this. These are unfiltered conversations between adult women talking about sex. If anything about the previous sentence offends you, turn back now! And if you’re looking for a trigger warning, you’re not going to get it from me. I believe that you are stronger than the trauma you have experienced. I have faith in your ability to deal with the things that upset you. Sound good? Let’s start the show!

[MUSIC]

LEAH: In today’s episode, we’ll meet Danielle, a 41 year old, cisgender woman who describes herself as white, Jewish, heteroflexible, married and monogamous. Danielle is the type of the person who is willing to put it all out on the table which must be why we became instant friends when we met several months ago. But it is also the secret to the popularity of her podcast Marriage and Martinis, which you’ll hear a bit about as we’re talking. I’m so pleased to introduce, Danielle!

I am so excited to be talking to Danielle today. I first met her through a podcast group that we’re both a part of and got to appear on her show with her husband Adam called Marriage and Martinis which if you’re not already listening to it, you should be.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And I’ll give you more information about it at the end of the show. But they do this wonderful thing where they are actually sorting through the issues of their marriage live on air with their podcast audience. It is so real and so vulnerable and amazing that I knew when I had an actual conversation with her that I definitely wanted her to be here as a guest on this show. So Danielle, thank you so much for being here.

DANIELLE: Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to talk to you again.

LEAH: Awesome. So let’s go back to the beginning. How did you first come into contact with the idea of

sex? Do you remember?

DANIELLE: Yeah, first of all, I’m a third child I don’t know if that has anything to do with it. I am the seventh of eighth grandchildren so I had a lot of older siblings, cousins, influences in my life. I was

always an experimental kid in many capacities. I tried my first cigarette at 8 years old. I was always very interested in trying to act more mature and older. I think maybe to sort of fit in more with my older cousins and siblings. I would say my first recollection of actually having some kind of feeling turned on or something was the movie Flash Dance.

LEAH: Oh, so good.

DANIELLE: Yeah, and I just remember when she’s dancing, there’s a split second too where there’s nudity and I believe that was the first time I had seen nudity in a movie or anything. And I remember rewinding that scene and playing it over and over and over and just having this new feeling that I’d never had before.

LEAH: So when did that start moving into your real life as opposed to your screen life?

DANIELLE: I was very curious. I think without the movies, I think that people blame and say, “Oh you

shouldn’t have watched this”, I think with or without, I was always curious about sex.

In 7th grade, I really started making out with boys. And it started as feeling like I wanted to belong and that was how I got a sense of belonging. I think I had some good experiences and I think I had some experiences looking back now where it was probably just a waste. Just sort of I’m sure I didn’t derive any pleasure out of it. It was sort of just to be there, to be in the moment with a popular boy or at a party with popular kids or it was to belong.

But then I did also had a boyfriend who I think for as young as I was, we were kind of serious and I really think I loved him as silly as that sounds and I think in 7th and 8th grade we did a lot of experimenting but I also think we had very real feelings for each other.

LEAH: It doesn’t sound silly to me at all.

DANIELLE: Yeah I think some people would think it does.

LEAH: Yeah but I mean we don’t suggest that kids don’t actually feel sad when a dog dies or happy when whatever. Those are real feelings.

DANIELLE: Right, that’s very true.

LEAH: Yeah, so in 7th grade relationship, you said that you were fooling around, how far were you going

with that boy?

DANIELLE: I think by 8th grade, I was engaging in oral sex. Not into me but me to him. And I think, like I said, things escalated to me very quickly to that point and then I did not lose my virginity until I was 20 years old.

LEAH: So was oral sex something that you were wanting in pursuit or was it something that he was pushing toward you?

DANIELLE: I think I always saw oral sex as an out to having to have sex and I think I was afraid to have sex so for a very long time I used oral sex as okay well I can still satisfy him but I don’t have to worry about actually engaging in sex.

LEAH: Interesting, so what was it about sex that was so intimating for you?

DANIELLE: That’s a loaded question for me and I’ve tried to think it over in my mind. I think first of all, I suffer from obsessive compulsive disorder to the point where sometimes it’s been sort of causing an effect in my life so terribly. Two times where it has been completely debilitating and I hadn’t been able to leave my bedroom.

I think that I would worry that if I engaged in sex, I would automatically think I was pregnant. I would automatically have thought I would have every STD. I would have just gone from point A to point Z. I did it so I must be just how your mind works when you have OCD. And I think that was maybe a defense mechanism for me that even if I would make out with a boy sometimes I would worry I was pregnant.

That kind of thing so I think I always had it in my mind that for me I knew that I would automatically go to that place of, “Oh my god, I did it” to “So I’m going to be the one person who used a condom and was careful but would still get pregnant anyway” or “I’m going to be the one person who ends up with STD.”

You always think it’s just you, you don’t realize that really some other people have the same thing happen. When you have OCD, you’re the bad seed, that person. Looking back now, I think that I realize that had a lot to do with it.

LEAH: So my knowledge of OCD is pretty much entirely based on what I’ve seen on television. [LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And that’s a lot about cleanliness is often the way that it’s portrayed. So did yours have an aspect of concerns around cleanliness?

DANIELLE: It morphs. I have gone through that, the hand washing and everything. But no, mine I had something called scrupulosity, and scrupulosity is very interesting because your name is Good Girls Talk About Sex but scrupulosity is all about trying to prove that you’re actually a good moral person. And you feel like it’s going to just get proven false if you do something bad so you, oftentimes in your mind, picture yourself.

It’s almost like hallucinating, doing bad things or the worst thing happening to you or doing something that will get you into trouble. And then you won’t be that good person anymore. So I didn’t know that at the time that there was this disorder, that there was a term for it. But I think that I was always so worried that I was going to end up, being like you say, a bad girl. That everybody was going to look at me and my family and I was going to be the one who would mess everything up.

LEAH: Wow that sounds like an incredibly painful way to live.

DANIELLE: Yeah. For a long time, I had been like that. For a really long time, I don’t think that I realized really what that was until I was pregnant and that’s when I really got help because it was really, really bad.

LEAH: The reason that I ask the question about cleanliness is that I can imagine that being an issue with oral sex. I mean with oral sex, there can be a mess. And I wonder if that played into it for you at all?

DANIELLE: No, I don’t think so. I think for me it was a cleanliness was more of a feeling of shame but not shame in just the act itself but the shame of oh well, I’ve heard from oral sex you can get AIDS so I would do it and then I would obsess, obsess, obsess for weeks after that I was the person who was going to get AIDS or herpes or whatever it is I was going to have the stigma. And that was going to be I would have to tell my parents, I would have to tell my friends and yeah.

LEAH: You said around 20 you had your first experience of intercourse sex. What got you to the place where you were ready to take that next step?

DANIELLE: I think that I felt like I was 20. [LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Understood.

[LAUGHTER]

DANIELLE: Yeah, I think that I felt like I had called it off as much as I possibly could. I got through high school with all my friends losing their virginity. I was always the one person who had boyfriends break up with me. I was always the one person who was the virgin. And I went to college and it became even more conspicuous.

LEAH: Was that first experience of intercourse positive one of you?

DANIELLE: I think it was fine. I think the guy who I lost my virginity with was in my mind, a really good guy to lose your virginity with. We had been in a relationship for quite a while. He was a gentleman. He

had courted me. He was very patient for a long time. He was a really good nice decent guy, a really good guy, cute and kind of the whole package. And I think I felt like he was the perfect means to an end.

So I could remember a few times enjoying sex with him, it wasn’t a great experience but it was good enough as much as looking back. That I don’t ever want my children to say it was good enough for them. I don’t want that an experience for anybody. You want it to be pleasurable and you don’t want to feel like you’re doing it just to do it but I do think at that time, when I woke up the next day, I was like, “Okay, good. That’s over with. I’m done.”

LEAH: Yeah, I didn’t have sex for the first time until l was 25. And I mean the guy and I were dating and okay, but it was not great and the reason that I did it was because I didn’t want to be the world’s oldest living virgin. It’s a pressure.

DANIELLE: It really is. It’s a pressure especially in today’s society and I do think that at some point, everybody asks you if you’re close enough that you probably lost your virginity and to be 20 and to say, “I haven’t lost it yet” or 25 and say, “Oh I haven’t lost it yet.” There’s a definite shame associated with that. I think as much as obviously there shouldn’t be, there is.

LEAH: Absolutely. So how did you discover masturbation?

DANIELLE: It’s so funny. We just recorded a podcast episode on Sunday where we talk about all of this

so it’s fresh in my mind. LEAH: Yay! [LAUGHTER]

DANIELLE: We hadn’t intended to but we ended up talking about it for 15 minutes. I remember the feeling of randomly happening to touch myself, maybe I was watching TV or something like that and having that feeling of, “Oh my god what was that?” And I think I remember thinking to myself it must have been either 6th grade. I remember thinking to myself, “Oh my God, you can make yourself feel like that? I had no idea.”

And I guess that’s kind of where it started and what we were actually talking about in the podcast was I in 7th grade had a group of friends that didn’t go to my school. They actually went to Adam’s, to my husband’s school, and I remember sitting up really late with them one night and it was one of those nights where you end up revealing all this stuff and we were in 7th grade so how much were we revealing.

But for a 7th grader, it was one of those late night girl talks. It’s one of those fun all nighters and I remember one of them started talking about masturbation and I actually remember thinking to myself, “Holy shit, we can talk about this?” And I guess because they didn’t go to my school maybe, I felt safe

enough. They weren’t going to run back and tell everybody, so there was a safety in that. But I remember talking about that with them and I remember for the first time being like, “Wow, we can talk about this stuff.”

LEAH: How did you feel about your body growing up in terms of did you have body issues, did you feel like you were that cute girl?

DANIELLE: First of all, I went to a prep school where everybody was super attractive. I think I always felt less attractive than everybody. I think that I was always an athlete so I think in high school and college, I probably had a good athletic figure and I was obsessed with my weight. I mean obsessed. It has always been an issue for me.

I didn’t actually start gaining weight and having to diet or feeling like I really needed to lose weight. Once I had kids it became a struggle. But I think when I was in high school or college, there was probably that point where I was pretty much starving myself because I so badly wanted to be thin.

LEAH: And how did that affect the relationships with the boys you were dating?

DANIELLE: I think they probably thought I had a good body and therefore they wanted to make out. Yeah, I think it was probably like I looked the way you should look to make out with a girl. I don’t think they were embarrassed to go back and say that they made out with me. I think probably I had a great, I was 17, body. Whatever it is, your metabolism is awesome.

[LAUGHTER]

DANIELLE: So I think I probably dichotomously I probably had really, really horrible self esteem but a really, really great body. If I look back at pictures now, I’m like, “Oh my God, I was a twig.” But I didn’t think I was a twig at the time. At the time I thought I needed to lose weight.

LEAH: Well, I guess the intercourse is maybe not a great delineation because it sounds like you were already probably naked, giving blow jobs before that. So I’m curious about how our relationship with our body affects our relationships with sex.

So as you started having more intense experiences with your sexual partners, did your feelings about your body affect, “Oh I need to look this way so I’m going to lie this way or do this thing sort of takes you out of the sexual experience?”

DANIELLE: First of all, I’ve only had two sexual partners. I’ve had the boy that I lost my virginity with and then I’ve been with my husband since I was almost 22, so really all of my experimenting has been with him.

I think everything before that was the standard kiss, then you go to second base, then you go to third base. I think it was literally that. There was no experimentation other than that. So really my entire sexual self, my entire world, has been with my husband.

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LEAH: What happens when your partner tells you how much they love what you’re doing to them? You want to do more of it. That’s why if you’re loving this podcast, I’d love if you left a five star rating and review at Apple Podcasts. Knowing you value these conversations keeps me motivated to continue bringing them to you. Here’s a recent review that got my blood pumping.

Onemoregirl77 wrote, “We needed this years ago. There are so many things that go unsaid and you finally get to hear them from all kinds of women and it’s incredibly enlightening. I felt understood listening to each one. As the mother of a young daughter, I’m so grateful to have found this to help me in educating her. Thank you, Leah.”

Thank you Onemorergirl77, I’m so grateful for your words. And, if you want even more Good Girls Talk About Sex, you can find it at Patreon. This week’s rewards are at the 5 dollar a month level, an extended conversation with Danielle about body image and how it affects her relationship with her husband. At the 7 dollar a month level, it’s 20 plus questions in 18 minutes of Q and A. And at the 10 dollar a month level, you’ll get all that plus a monthly ask me anything.

Plus, for Season 2, 10% of all Patreon donations I receive will go to ARC-Southeast, an organization that provides financial and logistical support to people seeking reproductive health services in Southeastern United States where safe and even life saving services are being legislated out of existence. To learn more and become a community supporter, visit patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex. And as always, word of mouth is the best advertising. So please, share this episode with a friend!

[MUSIC]

LEAH: let’s talk about you and your husband then. When you had that first sexual experience with him, how was it? Was it good right away or did it take time to develop?

DANIELLE: No, it took a very long time to develop. I think what we considered good at the time I think standards were a lot lower. I think my husband on the opposite end whereas I had only had 2 partners who had many, many, many partners. And so when we got together, I think I felt I was inexperienced and he was experienced. But I don’t think his were experiences I just think he had a lot of sex.

LEAH: Oh that’s an interesting distinction.

DANIELLE: Yeah, I don’t think at all that anything that he did, I don’t think he was having lots of different experiences. I think he was just literally getting out there, meeting a girl and having sex.

LEAH: I actually really love that distinction because I do think that we have this idea that the number of partners you have is directly corollary with the amount of experience you have. But if you were doing the same ABC with every partner, that’s maybe not exactly having a lot of experience.

DANIELLE: Yeah, I don’t think he did. I don’t even think he had. I mean I don’t know very much about it. I haven’t asked him too many specifics but I don’t think they were these amazing passionate nights I don’t think. I literally think he was just having sex. And knowing he wasn’t really the nicest guy at the time, so he probably wasn’t even putting much effort into trying, he was probably just trying to put a notch in his belt so to speak, which sounds awful to say. And he would probably kill me when he hears that.

[LAUGHTER]

DANIELLE: I think he would say for himself. I mean when you’re a 17 year old guy hanging out with the guy friends and going to bars and they’re not looking to give a girl the best night of her life. You’re looking to get laid. So neither of us really knew what we were doing. Neither of us was literally like just going through the motions I think and I think we did that for a long time.

LEAH: So what made you keep going back and doing that? Why did you continue if it wasn’t amazing?

DANIELLE: I guess I didn’t know how to get to amazing. I think it was good. I think it was fine. I think I probably did orgasms and thought it was good enough and I think we both just thought it was good enough. And then I think it really wasn’t until after we started having kids and our relationship changed and our bond changed that we really started to get experimental.

LEAH: Interesting. So how old is your oldest child?

DANIELLE: 13.

LEAH: So you’ve had about thirteen years.

DANIELLE: Yeah, I would say a little less maybe. When she was a few years old, we really started. I would say in the last 5-10 years. I mean whole different worlds have opened up.

LEAH: So do tell. [LAUGHTER] DANIELLE: Okay. [LAUGHTER]

LEAH: What kinds of things have you experimented with?

DANIELLE: I think we loved each other very, very much but we weren’t necessarily close and bonded for a long time. We have always had a very passionate relationship in the fighting sense and I think that across the board that that got strengthened in so many ways and I think in the bedroom that was one of those ways. So as much as we fight a ton, we have a very, very volatile relationship in many ways. We also have a very wonderful relationship.

LEAH: So when you started experimenting, who led that? Who sort of took the first step and said, “Hey honey I want to try something new?”

DANIELLE: Yeah, I don’t even know how that happened. I just remember us starting to do things that we hadn’t done before. I think it just got more experimental. I remember trying to do things like choking for the first time or spanking for the first time and I remember us both really liking it. And that was something that we had never done before and I think that we started making out in the back seat of Ubers or just stuff that was different that we got to a certain point where we were like, “Well, fuck it. We better do it now.”

[LAUGHTER]

DANIELLE: And we did it and we were like, “Why have we not been doing this?” So it’s hard when you have kids at home. It’s very hard especially now with a teenager because they knock on the door, they walk into the room or it’s very difficult to find time that I think we were forced to sort of have these late date nights. And then because we had to wait when the kids were asleep before we would come home and have sex so that kind of led to us being out longer and talking longer and bonding longer.

LEAH: Oh, wow.

DANIELLE: Yeah, and I think that it led to sort of coming home after a long night of feeling connected

and then going into the bedroom and I think it just kind of transitioned into the bedroom.

LEAH: That is fascinating. I love that. So during your time with Adam, have you discovered that there are certain types of touch that you enjoy the most?

DANIELLE: I think I’m definitely turned on by more aggressive behavior. I think that when I’m in the moment, I like that dirtier feeling. I found that I probably could push those limits a lot further than we already have. But again it’s time and we tend to do these things when we go away or on vacation or we’re trying to night away every couple months. Just because it’s I would say hotel sex so much different than home sex.

[LAUGHTER]

DANIELLE: I mean it’s just a whole different ball. You’re away five percent of your life and so if that’s all the time that you have to experiment, it makes it hard.

LEAH: So as you started discovering that you enjoy being the recipient of the more aggressive assertive behavior, has Adam kept pace with that? Does he enjoy that being on the other side of that?

DANIELLE: Yeah, I think he enjoys both. I think we both like it. It’s back and forth. I think that that has sort of become a standard in our sex life. It tends to turn aggressive and I think we both like it which is great. It’s one thing we’re both completely on the same page about.

LEAH: That’s awesome. I am just in the early stages. It’s been going on for a few months but that’s still early stages of experimenting with this sort of aggressive assertive stuff with my partner and I’ve discovered that I absolutely love it when he talks to me. The physically assertive stuff is fun but when he gives me directions or gives me orders, I’m like in his hands.

[LAUGHTER]

DANIELLE: That’s awesome. I mean it’s so great when you discover something that you really like and the other person is onboard with that. Because I would say with the two of us, in a lot of ways, I think I’m definitely the much more experimental of the two of us. I think I would probably do a lot more experimenting and I probably am the one who has gotten him to try things then he likes it.

I think the podcast has gotten us to try things. It’s opened us to other things we hadn’t opened up to before. I think it’s opened up a whole new world for us and I think maybe the connection that we felt when we started the podcast for each other strengthened it. For sure, I think at 40 I feel like I’m ready to take things to the next level. I think I’m ready to try things that I really want to try. You had talked about going to hedonism and everything I would love to do all that.

LEAH: Yeah. So note to all listeners, you want to have a better sex life, go to her podcast. DANIELLE: Right.

[LAUGHTER]

DANIELLE: Well, awesome if you want to fight more. It works both ways.

[LAUGHTER]

DANIELLE: It’s just like starting a business with your husband. It’s like on one hand, you think to yourself, “Oh my God, can I really do that?” On the other hand, thankfully we like talking to each other.

LEAH: The two of you, I just find you incredibly brave.

DANIELLE: Thank you.

LEAH: I love listening to the two of you.

DANIELLE: Thank you.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Anyway, have you come across any hard red lines, absolute no’s that you don’t want to engage in together?

DANIELLE: I think that any kind of threesome or being someone else into the mix is a hard no. I think that neither of us have the self esteem for that. Our marriage is very close. When we’re distant, we’re very, very distant. I think bringing anyone else into the mix would cause all kinds of complications. Not to say that’s not an experience that I wouldn’t love to have, but I don’t think we can have it. So yeah, I think that’s a hard no.

I hate anal sex. I just absolutely hate it. That’s a hard no for me. I absolutely hate it. Adam likes it. I hate it. I never want to have it again. I think I went probably maybe a couple years, two to three years participating in it and I look back and I’m angry at myself that I did. To be fair to Adam, I don’t think he knew. I don’t think I vocalized it. I think I thought I was being a good wife and a good sexual partner by just dealing.

So I think I did it because I didn’t want to be seen as prude. Or I didn’t want to be seen as not one of those girls who will do anything. I wanted to be that girl who would do anything.

LEAH: And what brought you to the moment where you finally said I don’t want to do this anymore? DANIELLE: I think I’ve just become more like that in life. I think I just am more now getting to a point

where I have the courage to say I’m not okay with it. [MUSIC]

LEAH: Before we finish up, let’s do the quick five. Five quick questions we’d usually be too polite to ask any good girl.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Do you have sex during your period? DANIELLE: No, at least not purposely.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Because you don’t like it?

DANIELLE: Yeah, I don’t like it. Adam doesn’t care. I don’t like it. First of all, I don’t want to be the one to clean it after and I don’t want anybody else cleaning it up after.

LEAH: I understand that. [LAUGHTER]

DANIELLE: So I don’t want to be in a hotel and leave that for somebody else and I don’t want to deal with the aftermath.

LEAH: How often do you have sex?

DANIELLE: Again, ebb and flow, depends where we are in our relationship, and especially if on vacation several times a year. If it’s just regular life, we could probably go three weeks without it and have a weekend where we’re all connected and do it three times that weekend.

LEAH: And do you tend to be on the same cycle is how I’m thinking about it, like you’re both feeling really connected at the same time?

DANIELLE: Yes. I think when we have really, really, really good sex, it’s because we’re in a really good place. I think there are sometimes we’re not in a good place and we still have sex just because we want to have sex. And I’m not going to say it’s not good sex, it’s just not the same kind of emotional and connected sex.

LEAH: Do you schedule sex or is it spontaneous?

DANIELLE: We schedule date nights and we schedule nights away and that’s how we schedule sex because life happens. And that’s one thing our marriage, we often say in the podcast, there’s so many things we’ve done wrong and so many mistakes and so many things we’ve learned from and everything.

I think consistently the one thing we had always done which for us has saved our marriage again and again is that we always make time to be alone. And we always make time to reconnect and even last weekend we went away for the weekend and we were in one of those distant periods. And we went away for the night and had amazing sex and it brought us back together. And just I think it’s so necessary, maybe not for every relationship, but certainly I think for many that you take that time and not be in the house and leave and just be a couple. I think so many of us forget to do that.

LEAH: Something else that my partner and I do is that we have agreed that if there are times because we have the regular ups and downs that every relationship has. When we’re going through a challenging period, we have agreed that we still need to have sex through that difficult period because it keeps us connected and helps us remember what we’re fighting for.

DANIELLE: And when you have sex do you feel better and more connected after or do you still just go back?

LEAH: Well, it doesn’t solve the underlying issues but it helps us to feel more connected and to maybe find new pathways forward. I mean we are both cuddlers and so we have sex and then we cuddle and in that space sometimes we can have kind of intimate conversations that maybe harder in other places.

DANIELLE: Right. That makes sense.

LEAH: How do you feel when your partner can’t get an erection or keep an erection during sex?

DANIELLE: We usually don’t have that problem. Sometimes we have the problem where he says he can always finish but there are sometimes when he takes a really long time and that is bothersome to me. Because I think that they’re allowed to be done and then we’re done, but we’re allowed to be done and then we have to wait for them to be done. So and I tend to get sore and tired but yet you feel like the bad wife and the bad woman saying no I’ve had enough I’m done.

LEAH: Yeah, I remember having a version of this conversation when I was on your podcast. And you know what I have it here so let’s play some of it.

ADAM: I want Danielle to be able to finish every time. Sexually obviously we’re talking here. Obviously, I’m going to.

DANIELLE: Don’t say obviously. Some guys don’t. ADAM: Is that true?

DANIELLE: Yeah.

ADAM: Okay. I apologize. I can finish every time no matter what, it’s not a problem. I want Danielle to but when I’m done and I know Danielle is not, there’s nothing I can do more to help her finish. It’s almost like picture yourself having dinner and you’re so full. And somebody brings out another plate and you’re just like, “I can’t eat anymore if I do, I’m just going to fucking throw up.”

DANIELLE: We got a lot of feedback about that. LEAH: Did you really?

DANIELLE: Adam got a ton of feedback, a ton of people saying, “Oh my God, I can’t believe you said that. it’s so selfish” which I thought at the time too. And Adam has this thing where when I’m done I’m done like giving someone a plate of food after they’re full. He got a ton of that feedback but my answer also to that is I think people are getting at angry for him for speaking the truth.

LEAH: Exactly. [LAUGHTER]

DANIELLE: Everyone wants you to speak the truth and then you speak the truth and it’s like, “Are you sure you’re saying that?”

LEAH: Yeah, I think he said something that is probably true for a lot of heterosexual couples.

DANIELLE: Which I think is what’s so great about him, which is as much as I wanted to punch him in the

face when he said that. [LAUGHTER]

DANIELLE: I also have to have a lot of respect for him for being able to say it because I’m sure there are a ton of guys out there who feel the same way.

LEAH: So I wonder if having this conversation with you, I wonder if there might be a way to begin to change that conversation if when you’re done and he’s not and you’re starting to get sore, which is an experience I think most women can probably relate to.

DANIELLE: Especially if you’re 40. [LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yes, absolutely. If you say, “Okay I need to stop intercourse but I’m still going to give you a hand job, I’ll give you a blow job, I’ll use a toy.” There’s actually a great toy, I’ll put it in the Show Notes for this. It’s called an Egg, it’s amazing. We love it.

DANIELLE: Okay, cool.

LEAH: I’ll send you the information for it. “I think I will continue to help you to get to your climax but we need to remove that from my genital area.” And if he has that experience then maybe it will help him to begin to understand the reverse, that there are times.

DANIELLE: Yeah, I think the reaction that he got from all of that. I think it was very eye opening for him and I think it was good because I think also that a lot of women said then they made their husbands listen to the episode and I think it opens up dialogue. And so I think that even when he said it, I think he was sort of, “Wait a minute, maybe I need to rephrase that”, which is great.

LEAH: Awesome. Excellent. Do you orgasm from intercourse? DANIELLE: Yes, I would say probably only 40-50% of the time?

LEAH: Okay. Great. So I want to make sure that people know exactly where to find you and we’ve mentioned your podcast a bunch of times but if you could just give people sort of the quick synopsis of what they hear when they tune in?

DANIELLE: Yeah. So Marriage and Martinis, when you tune in, you will hear a lot of realness. Marriage is really fucking hard. Relationships are really fucking hard. Parenting is really fucking hard. And you just need to be more honest and get over the bullshit of how it’s supposed to work and the filters and the this or that and just get back to let’s just say it how it is.

LEAH: Awesome. So they can find you on iTunes and all the regular places.

DANIELLE: Yeah, where you get your podcasts. Instagram is a great place to find us and get all the updates. You can sign up for our emails when you go to our website marriageandmartinis.com and scroll all the way down to the bottom and that keeps you updated on everything.

LEAH: Awesome. Danielle, thank you so much. This has been such a joy.

DANIELLE: Thank you, yeah, it’s been wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. LEAH: Yes, it’s my pleasure.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Thanks for joining me today on Good Girls Talk About Sex. If you have questions or comments about something you’ve heard or if you’d like to be a guest on the show, please email me at leah@goodgirlstalkaboutsex.com.

I was only able to step outside my good girl box when someone I respected told me it was possible to do it. If you’d like to step outside your good girl box, I’m here to tell you it’s possible and I can provide you with tools to name your desires and communicate them effectively to your partner or potential partners. If you’re interested in working with me, visit leahcarey.com/coaching.

You can find me on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at IamLeahCarey. You can find these links and any resources we’ve mentioned during the interview in the Show Notes. I’m Leah Carey and I look forward to talking with you again next week. Here’s to your better sex life!