I haven’t told my husband my fetishes – Vin

LEAH: Welcome to Good Girls Talk About Sex. I am sex and intimacy coach, Leah Carey, and this is a place to share conversations with all sorts of women about their experience of sexuality. These are unfiltered conversations between adult women talking about sex. If anything about the previous sentence offends you, turn back now! And if you’re looking for a trigger warning, you’re not going to get it from me. I believe that you are stronger than the trauma you have experienced. I have faith in your ability to deal with things that upset you. Sound good? Let’s start the show.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Hey friends. We are back with the next in our series of uncut real and raw interviews. As a reminder, I’m taking a little break from the usual fully produced episodes because I’ve been feeling overwhelmed lately. But I have this group of interviews from late 2019 and early 2020 that got caught in a time wrap and never made it to air. So, I’m sharing them with you in their unedited form. You get to hear all of the stumbles, long pauses, and meandering conversations that you usually get cleaned up into a tight narrative in a regular episode. You’re going to see a bit of how the sausage is made, if you will.

And if you enjoy the sausage each week on this show, don’t forget that you can go to patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex to support my work. There is no charge to consume the main podcast or any of the audio extras at Patreon, but the show costs over $125 dollars per episode to produce and that’s with me doing a ton of the work myself. So, even a couple of dollars a month makes a difference. Again, that’s patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex. And you can find that link in the episode description on the app that you’re listening on now.

Okay. So, in today’s conversation, you’ll meet Vin. She is a 22-year-old, cisgender female who describes herself as indigenous, monogamous, bisexual, and married. She grew up in a Christian home and describes her body as chunky. There’s a bit of background noise a few times during this conversation, but it doesn’t last for long. I am so pleased to introduce, Vin!

Vin, thank you so much for joining me. I love it when people get in touch and say that they’re listeners and you did that, so thank you.

VIN: I am so happy to be here. It’s really cool to be in here. I’ve also never done this before, so it’ll be interesting.

LEAH: Well, we’ve just chatted for a couple of minutes before we hit record and I can already tell you’re going to be great.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: It’s all I can hope for.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, let’s start at the beginning where I start every interview. What is your first memory of sexual pleasure?

VIN: I was actually thinking about it. Before I listened to your podcast, I would have had a totally different answer. But now that I have, I’ve been thinking about it. I think I was definitely younger than seven, possibly between four and seven. I can really remember my family was a huge movie family growing up, so we were watching Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, all of those kinds of things. And I remember I don’t know what movie it was, but there was a sex scene in the movie and my parents were like, “Close your eyes. You can’t see this.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: So, they’re trying to always usher us out of the room. I remember I peeked. I was a bad kid, but I peeked and I saw that and it didn’t bother me at the time. But then later on just as a kid thinking about it, I guess I just thought about it as I wondered what that felt like. I guess I just tried it and it worked. I think the first time I ever did it, I used a pillow and I didn’t orgasm.

LEAH: So, you were humping a pillow?

VIN: Yeah. So, I don’t think I would have kept doing it if I had an orgasm, but I don’t explicitly remember an orgasm.

LEAH: So, I’m curious. You said before listening to this podcast, you would have had a different answer. What would your other answer have been?

VIN: Well, normally, whenever I think about it, when I think about sexual pleasure, I think of boyfriend, girlfriend, husband and wife, whatever. But if you actually think about it, there’s so much that happened before I got married and so much happened before high school that you just forget about. So, before your podcast, I think I would have said with my husband when we first met and that’s in my car. Yeah. That’s kind of bold. I wouldn’t have done it. It’s so shocking to think of myself like that. Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: All right. Well, we are going to get there, but we have a bunch of years to get through first. So, you’re in your little girl years, somewhere between four and seven. You’re humping the pillow and it sounds like this was something you did repeatedly. Is that true?

VIN: I think I did. I was thinking about it. I think I genuinely did it every night for at least a month or so. It was a long period of time and I don’t think I was actually thinking about anything. I think I was genuinely feeling myself, which is weird for me to think about because I remember seeing the movie scene, but that wasn’t what was running through my head. It was just me exploring down there, which was weird for me to think about.

LEAH: Do you think that there was any emotional baggage around doing it? You said that your mom said, “Don’t watch this part.” So, did you have an idea that what you were doing was bad or wrong?

VIN: I don’t think so. My parents never really did the talk with me. Even before that, I was way too young to have that kind of talk, but I don’t think I ever hid it. I had my own room at the time. And I think I was just hiding it from my sisters because it’s like, “This is my thing. I don’t want to share it with you. Go away” because I was so used to fighting with them for everything. I think I just wanted to keep it for myself for as long as I could.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. Were they older or younger sisters?

VIN: They’re older. I’m the youngest.

LEAH: So, that’s interesting because maybe they had already discovered it as well or if they hadn’t discovered it, maybe you as the little one could have taught them.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: Because there was one time, I think I locked my door and my sister came in on me or tried to come in on me, but the door was locked. I was naked under my blanket and she was like, “What are you doing?” I’m like, “I’m just trying to sleep. Go away.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: So, I want to know if she knew what I was doing or not, but I don’t know if she actually remembers that.

LEAH: I’d be curious to go back and have that conversation with her.

VIN: Maybe a couple of years. It might be a little too much for her right now.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, you were pretty young. What happened next? You said you did that for about a month, you think. Did you continue to explore your body after that month or was it just something that you put aside?

VIN: It was definitely something I put aside. I think at one point I was like, “I think this is wrong and I’m just going to stop doing it because I don’t want to be immature.” And I was like, “Okay. I’m going to grow up now. I want to be a big kid.” And I stopped. But I can remember going back and thinking, “Oh, why did I stop doing that?” And then, starting back up again when I was older. But there was definitely a period of time between those two that I didn’t even think about it. It just popped into my head one day.

LEAH: How old do you think you were when you restarted?

VIN: I want to say between 10 or 13, somewhere in between there. It was definitely before middle school, I think. I was definitely out of elementary school and I was under junior high I think, which is 7^th or 8^th grade I believe or 8^th or 9^th grade.

LEAH: And do you recall what got you back interested into it?

VIN: I don’t know. I think it might have just been one day I thought about it, but it also could have been a book I read because I was a nerd.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: I was a book nerd. It definitely could have been a book. If I had to put my money on it, it’d definitely be a book.

LEAH: What kinds of books were you reading?

VIN: I remember one book at least. There was a Gossip Girls book that I remember I slept in my grandparent’s house and there was one laying over there and I read everything. I didn’t know what it was and there was definitely a sex scene or something in there. That might not have put it off, but that definitely encouraged it.

LEAH: Sure. Just that juicy sexy feeling, yeah. And when you got back to it in your teens, I love that you thought, “As a little girl, I’m going to be a big girl and stop doing this and stop being so immature.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, when you got back to it as a tween, were you still thinking that this was a little girl immature thing to do or had you changed your thinking about it?

VIN: I’d have to think about that one because when I was younger, I was the smallest, my sisters picked on me all the time, so they were always telling me I was doing something wrong. Can you repeat the question? I totally lost my train of thought.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. Absolutely. I was asking about whether as you got older, your thinking about masturbation being for little girls and immature had changed?

VIN: I don’t think it changed until I was in high school, so I think it was just like, “Oh, I’m a big kid now. I can do this now.” At the time, I didn’t realize why I had stopped, but I can’t remember. I remember when I first stopped and why I stopped but I don’t think I remembered that at the time when I was starting it. Does that make sense? I started thinking about it like, “Oh, I remember that being fun. I want to do that again.” So, I don’t know.

LEAH: And was it pleasurable when you started up again and you were having orgasms?

VIN: Yes. I think it took me a couple of times to get back into, but I definitely kept doing it, so it works.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. And you were having orgasms?

VIN: Yes.

LEAH: So, what kind of conversation in your childhood home about sex and sexuality?

VIN: In my home, my parents are very intimate, but I can’t remember a time where they just went off in the bedroom like, “Okay. Me and your mom are going to have time by ourselves now.” But my parents hug and kiss. They still do now. My gosh, go get a room.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But they were definitely very romantically attracted to each other and that was always very obvious. They always told us, “We want you to be in a good relationship that’s romantic and it’s not just like a meh relationship.” But I don’t think there was ever a sex talk until I was in high school. It never came up and that thought was never there. I don’t think I ever actually put two and two together that sex and masturbation or whatever I was doing was the same thing. I don’t think I ever put those two together. It was just something I did.

LEAH: Yeah. And how much older are your sisters?

VIN: I think of them is three years older than me and the other one I want to say seven or eight years older than me, but that math could be totally off.

LEAH: Okay. So, at about three years old and seven years older, your sisters are significantly older than you are?

VIN: Yes.

LEAH: Were you watching them go out on dates? Were you hearing them talk about boys or girls or sexual experiences at all?

VIN: Not at all. I only learned recently, but growing up we had no idea, but my oldest sister is a lesbian. She over time talked about movie characters that she was attracted to, but they were always big muscly guys, so that was her obvious way out. So, that was never a real possibility with her and it never connected like that.

But I don’t think my other sister, my middle sister, was active until middle school. So, for me there was a huge gap between when I started and whenever I was old enough to acknowledge that they were doing something I wasn’t.  And even then, we’re a close family, but we’re not close enough to talk about those kinds of things I guess. She should have, but I can’t think of a single time whenever she came home and told us about a date or a boy or anything at all. Even now, I can barely even think of three instances she’s brought it up. Period.

LEAH: What about your eldest sister? How did your family respond when she came out as a lesbian?

VIN: For me, I had finally learned about gay people that they exist. So, it was no big deal for me. It was just one more thing to add to the list of things that I now know as a grown up. But my family is very religious. I don’t want to say we’re super religious. We’re very conservative and stuff. But my parents definitely, I know it took my dad a couple weeks to get over it. He couldn’t eat very well. He didn’t want to talk to anybody. It was very hard on my parents because the way they grew up, the way they wanted to raise us. They just told me over dinner and I think they called it a joke because I was so nonchalant about it. I was like, “Okay.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But my parents definitely took it hard. I’m not sure about my middle sister. They told her in a thrift shop.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: They were like, “Oh, you know I’m gay, right?” And she was like, “What? You didn’t tell us?”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: So, my parents were definitely the leading religious part and I think that had a lot to do with how they reacted, but me and my other sister are not so into it that we didn’t react the same way.

LEAH: So, what kind of religious conversation was happening in your home? Did you get the sex is sinful or was sex just never ever talked about either way?

VIN: I don’t think it was ever talked about until about I want to say until I was about a teenager or a preteen. High school, I think I’m a teenager. I’m a young adult, but preteen is you’re in between being a little kid and a big kid. So, in my church at least, they have small groups. So, it’s like we’ll do a big lesson. and then we’ll break up into age groups, and then separate boys and girls.

Our church took that as this is your time to get together with your friends, your age, your sex, with an adult or two or three who know what they’re talking about to influence you to find a nice kid, stay with that nice kid, but it was never about sex. It was always about finding the right person, staying married, learning how to deal with that kind of thing. I think they were just always afraid of being inappropriate, but it’s like who are we going to learn from those? We have nobody else. Where are we supposed to get this magical knowledge at?

LEAH: Yeah. Right. That’s a great question. Yeah.

VIN: I still need that answer.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, at what point did you feel like you were ready to bring another person into this interaction?

VIN: Honestly, I was thinking about it. I didn’t have a boyfriend, a kiss, any kind of actual intimacy with anybody until I was 18 and I met my husband at work. So, it’s like I had no flirting. There was no going to parties and seeing people. It’s like I came home from school, I did my stuff. I went to sleep and that was it. I didn’t go hang out with friends or anything. I was just like a good girl. I knew not to go party. My parents were very trusting, so it’s like I never ever went out and did anything like that because I was very quiet, very quiet.

LEAH: Yeah. That sounds like all of that was pretty much by choice. That was the way that you wanted it to be?

VIN: At the time, yes. I really wish I wasn’t that stupid.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But it was definitely by choice. I was definitely in a little anger stage when I just hated everybody. I didn’t think I was fit to be with anybody. Nobody else was fit to be with me. I look back on it. I really wish I still had aggression, but I don’t. I really need it, but I don’t. And I did have friends like close friends, but I can only think of one friend where I actually talked about sex with her. She was flabbergasted that I hadn’t had sex or I hadn’t talked with anybody else about sex because she had been having sex since she was I don’t even know how young. But it was in school like everybody, she’s like, “So and so is going together.” I’m like, “Okay. I’m home alone. This is great.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: It was definitely weird to think about at the time and I just brushed it off, but I always knew I wasn’t ready. I knew that if I found somebody that I liked, I would go out and do something with them or even just hold their hand or something, but I just don’t think anybody ever interested me. I thought I was asexual for a long time because it was just nobody interested me.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: Is there something wrong with me or am I just waiting? Am I lazy? What’s going on?

LEAH: So, through that time, were you yearning for something or was it not really that big a deal to you?

VIN: Obviously at this time, I was masturbating. I knew that eventually I would get to that point where I wanted to have sex with somebody, but I wanted more like a companionship mainly because I didn’t have any really close friends that I could talk to about that kind of stuff. So, it’s like at one point, I wanted a very just companionship relationship.

I wanted a best friend, which is what I found in my husband. I found a companion that I could talk to about anything I wanted and that is what I wanted. But with friends, you can’t talk to them about this, you can’t tell them about this. You don’t want to tell them about this. But at the same time, I also wanted someone that I could have a sexual interaction with or do stuff like that with, but that was just never an option because nobody stepped up I guess or I didn’t step up.

LEAH: Yeah. So, when you were a teenager imagining this mythic person who was going to show up, what did you imagine doing with them? What kinds of fantasies were you having?

VIN: I know that there was definitely like car sex always interested me in the backseat, in the front seat, blowjob while driving, that kind of thing. It was always stuff like that or actual romantic intimate stuff in a bed, being very close with each other. That always interested me a lot. I do like the idea of being dominated, but I just don’t think that’s something that I would have the capability of not retaliating to.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: I’m not very aggressive, but I can be. If you threaten me, I’ll throat chop you.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: There were different things like that that interested me, but it was never something I could really actually think about [physically doing. It was literally just off in the back of my head in the fantasy world. This might be a possibility. I’ll think about this. This might be a possibility. I’ll think about this. But none of that, I don’t think any of it ever actually manifested until I actually I had somebody with me that I could possibly do those things to.

LEAH: Yeah. So, just to go back for a second.

VIN: Sorry, I keep jumping forward. It’s just my head.

LEAH: No. you’re doing great.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: To go back for a second to the idea that you fantasized about being dominated, but it’s not something you think you’d want in real life, that is totally normal.

VIN: That’s one thing I heard on your show. That really connected because there’s so many things I hadn’t wanted to tell my husband I was interested in, but it’s like now I think I could because I have an actual way of putting it into words like, “This interests me, but we’re not doing this.”

LEAH: Yeah. But it could be part of your dirty talk with each other if that’s something you do.

VIN: That’s something I never considered either, those different kinds of tidbits or, “Holy crap. I could do that. I can actually do that.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: It’s amazing what happens when we put away the rules that we’ve been taught about what we can do as nice good girls.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: Sometimes it’s not even about going against the rules, that’s there. That exists? There was nothing there. It was just an empty fathomless that I didn’t know existed and now it’s just chock full of everything. Oh, I’m so excited.

LEAH: I love it.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, what was your relationship with your body as a teenager? How did you feel about your body?

VIN: I definitely did not like myself. Even until now, I’ve gotten a lot better in how I feel about myself because I’m not near my parents all the time mainly. I know that they always had their best intentions for us. It wasn’t just me. It was also my sisters. I think my parents got into an overweight phase that made them really ashamed, so growing up they tried to bring us up to be very healthy and make sure we didn’t get overweight and didn’t get embarrassed. But it was never like, “You’re fat. You need to go on a diet.” It’s more like, “You need to be as healthy as you could possibly be.”

So, it was never about vanity. It was more they tried to bring it up around health and it’s not a big deal. Just do it. You’ll feel better. So, I’m struggling with that right now. It’s like I’m happy with the way I look. I don’t feel as big as I am. I still feel like this is me. I still feel the way I am or the way I was when I was in high school whenever I wasn’t actually overweight. I just thought I was.

So, it’s like now I can just eat healthy and I will be healthy. I can make myself healthy, but it’s supposed to be about the health, not about being fat. But when they talk about or whenever I hear that, they want me to lose weight rather than being healthy and that’s the way they phrase it. They just want you to be healthy, so you’ll lose weight and you’ll be happy.

LEAH: Yeah. It’s such a complicated ball of knots that we’ve created in this culture that we’ve somehow finally figured out that it’s not okay to tell people they’re fat, but we still believe it’s not okay to be fat. And so, we phrase as, “We just want you to be healthy,” but then that turns into health trolling and shaming people for not being “healthy” even when what you’re really saying is, “I’m fat phobic.” It’s very complicated and even if people are using words that they think, subvert the narrative, what they’re actually doing is propping up the narrative and moving it forward.

VIN: Yeah. It’s really hard because I know that they have my best intentions at heart. They want me to be the best I can be, but at the same time, they’re not okay with the way I am right now. That’s what I need them to be okay with. Just right now, it’s just not even an option because my sister just had weight loss surgery and it was so successful for her and her weight loss journey. Now because I see my parents every day, we’re really close, but we’re not close enough to talk about these kinds of things. But now that they have seen the results that my sister has gotten from a weight loss surgery, they don’t want to say, “You need to go get the surgery.” They’re like, “Oh, have you seen how successful her surgery is?” Nudge, nudge.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: Yes. I got it. Thank you. Now they want to go get nose jobs. They want to go get boob jobs. They just want to get everything fixed, which is okay for them. But when they try to suggest it on me or my cousins, I hate that. It stresses me out so much and it just makes my self-esteem just go all the way to the ground.

LEAH: I’m so sorry. Yeah. And it is a really common experience I think for so many of us. Like you said, your parents, they care about you so much and this is all coming from a place of care, but we are so enculturated in this world of fat phobia that it’s almost impossible to pull apart the fat phobia from the caring.

VIN: I do want to be smaller. I know I’m overweight, but at the same time, right now, I just got off a birth control that wasn’t working for me. I was depressed for a long time and losing weight was just not an option. It wasn’t even on the forefront of my brain and now that I’m off of it and on a different one, it’s like a whole new world was open and I can finally go do whatever I need to do. But at the same time, I want to lose weight, but it’s hard for me to want to lose weight for myself and I don’t want to give them a self-satisfaction of them thinking like, “Oh, something I said made a difference.” No, actually it really didn’t. It didn’t help at all.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. Oh, I hear that. I remember when I was a kid my dad would push the idea of exercise so hard that I was like, “Why don’t you just shut up about it? If you didn’t talk about it so incessantly, maybe I would want to do it. But you talk about it so incessantly and it’s this thing coming down on from high that I’m supposed to do and I’m bad for not doing it and all of that.” I was like, “Yeah. Screw you. I don’t want to do that.”

VIN: Yeah. I did T-ball growing up. That was their intro into it like, “I love T-ball.” I love softball until I got to those teenage years where it’s like, “Oh, these girls are popular. I’m not popular. I’m definitely weird.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But I think that was also the time whenever they introduced a traveling softball team and that was something I didn’t want to do with these girls I wasn’t sure liked me. So, I never pursued that as an option. Then after that option was gone, I didn’t really have anything else that interested me besides roughhousing with my sisters. There was nothing else that interested me and that I think it hit my parents hard because they went and got gym memberships.

I was in elementary school and I can remember my mom a month or so after me the youngest quit softball and it was no longer a physical exercise, she went and got a gym membership for her and me and my middle sister because my older sister was not overweight. My oldest sister was not overweight. It was just me and my middle sister. We were obviously little kids. We were chunky, but it was mostly just baby fat. But at the same time, growing up with those kinds of influences I guess of like, “Oh, you need to be at the gym. You need to be exercising all the time and you need to not gain weight.” It just backfired totally. But I can remember a Tuesday or so my mom would take me and my sister and try to make it fun. “Let’s go to the gym. We’ll play on the balls. We’ll go get the bungee cords.” But it never really worked and it just didn’t work.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. So, this is skipping ahead in the timeline a little bit, but how does your husband respond to your body?

VIN: We’ve only been married about just over three years, four years. I got married when I was 18 and I’m 22. So, that’s four. I’ve definitely gained weight. He’s never told me that I’m fat. He knows I’m overweight and I’m very realistic. I know I’m overweight but he’s never made it or made me feel like that was a dealbreaker or a no-go. We’re very truthful. If anything were to come up, he would tell me, but I ask him all the time because I’m so self-conscious that I might have done something. I might have eaten seeming that’s pushed me past the breaking point. He’s like, “No. You’re fine. Sit down. Eat your cheeseburger. You’re fine.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Good.

VIN: Which is really, really nice because it’s like, “Thank you. It’s not a big deal. It finally goes away.” But at the same time, it’s always in my back brain like, “Next day, is this okay? I’m sorry. Did I eat this right?” Because when we met, he was not overweight. He was physically fit. He was going to the gym. He had big muscles. But since we’ve been married, he has I don’t want to say slacked off, but he’s not gone to the gym. It’s gone down. But at the same time, I’ve also gained weight. So, he’s in a place where he is not the way he was and I’m in a place where I’m not the way I was when we met, which is fine. But it’s me trying to come to terms to that. He’s always been there, but it’s me trying to meet him up here at such a high point that I wish I was there.

LEAH: I totally get that. So, I’ve always had body image issues and when I went through my sexual awakening, some of that began to ease. But through this period of COVID and really just hardly leaving my apartment, I have gotten softer and bigger and I was just having this conversation with my partner recently where I was like, “I’m just feeling self-conscious and is it okay with you that I’ve gained some weight.” And he looked at me and he said, “We’re both going to get old and wrinkly.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: He’s like, “I am too.” I’m like, “I know.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: Yeah. That’s the way it’s going to work. As a young person, it’s like I don’t want to think about that far off, but I know it’s going to happen. So, it’s like I know when I’m old I’m going to regret all this thinking bad about myself. I know it. I can just feel it. But it’s so hard to just get out of the routine of thinking badly about yourself and I’ve done a lot progress in that. But I just can’t get past that one point.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. And you have these adorable dimples and the little notch in your chin.

VIN: Thank you.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: That was one of the things that came first to me. He came up and he put my dimples at work and I’m like, “We’re going to fight.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: People always say, “You shouldn’t lose weight. You’re going to lose your dimples.” I’m like, “I promise you. They will still be there.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, let’s talk about meeting your husband. How did that happen? How did it feel to finally meet somebody who you felt that desire for?

VIN: I think growing up in high school, through my high school years when I was actively searching for somebody to connect with, and then I didn’t find that person. After I left high school, I was in college for a semester and once I started college and I had a full-time job and I was a full-time student at a fast-food restaurant, he had just started there. But in the process of him starting there I think I was just graduating, so my first time I ever saw him was on my birthday which was on my graduation day, and then that was the first time I saw him. It’s like, “Okay. We got a new kid. Yes!”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: And then I think a week or two later we had our first shift together because we were both in the kitchen and we played music back there. I was always the first one there, so I always got first dibs and nobody was going to fight me because they knew I beat them.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But I was playing music and it frustrates me because he still does it to this day. He’ll be like, “Who sings this? Who plays this? What band is this?” And I’ll be like, “Oh, it’s da, da, da.” And then he’ll be like, “Oh, well why don’t we keep it that way?” I would always sing. I’m not a good singer, but I love singing along stuff and I was singing back there and he’s like, “Oh, who is this?” And I’m like, “Oh, it’s Five Finger Death Punch.” And he was like, “Yes. I’ll be able to relate to someone about this.” And then, he was like, “Oh, why don’t we keep it that way?” I was like, “Are you kidding me?”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: You’re new. You’re not allowed to tell me that because I was very ballsy back then. So, it’s like everybody got along. I was not genuinely mad at him, but everybody was laughing. It was funny because it’s like, “You can’t do that. You can’t make jokes about me.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: And then I threatened to punch him in the face. It was a joke, but at the same time he didn’t know that because he didn’t know me. He’s like, “Oh, please don’t. Please don’t.” I was like, “It’s okay, man. It’s okay. It’s all going to be okay.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: And then, right around that time, Pokémon go which is like an app where you go outside and you can go follow things and catch them, but it’s like you have to physically walk around. And it’s like when you work in a fast-food place in a college town, you work with college kids. So, at 10 o’clock at night when we closed, we all went to the local park or whatever and walked around a three-mile lake for a long, long time.

And so, it’s like three nights after that we went as a big group and he was there and we didn’t really talk. And then, we did that several nights in a row with a big group of people, and then we decided we would drive around. And then he ended up getting into the car with me and it was just us two because we were carpooling. There was two in here, two in here, six in here, whatever. And then I was playing the music, and then we just started talking. And then slowly at 4 AM people would drift off and go to bed.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But we were out. I think I didn’t sleep for three days because I think we were just out all day, and then I went to school, and then I went to work, and then we went Pokémon hunting.

LEAH: Did you know right away that you were interested in him?

VIN: Yes, for sure. Definitely whenever I threatened to punch him in the face. It was a sign.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But I think after a week of driving around the car, it’s so embarrassing. We were pretend arm wrestling while he was driving, which don’t do at home.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But I feel so mortified because I didn’t realize he was trying to hold my hand.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN:  And I was trying to arm wrestle him and I was like, “I got you” and I had his arm pinned down and he was like, “Oh, shit. We’re holding hands.” And he’s like, “Oh my gosh. Yay!” Fireworks are going off.

LEAH: That’s really cute.

VIN: And then I think that same night it had to have been two hours later we went and we parked at that lake. And then I think we just talked all night and that was the first time I ever felt I could actually talk to someone about anything. I don’t know what it was, but I had never felt like I could connect with someone that much. It’s like I told him something, and then he told me something, and then we just kept going back and forth. And then he asked me if he could kiss me. I don’t know if he said please, whatever.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: We did and at the very end, I was like, “So, are we dating now?”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: Because it was really stressing me out. He’s like, “Yes. We can date now.” I was like, “Yay!”

LEAH: Did you enjoy that first kiss?

VIN: Yes. It was definitely I don’t want to say wet. It was very soft.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But at the same time, I didn’t know what to do. I wasn’t going to go out there. He had a little bit more experience than I did. He had no experience. There’s not much past that. He had kissed maybe three people, so that’s not a whole lot for me to think about. But at the same time, we were both exploring someone we cared about for the first time. So, we both went really slow-ish. So, it was really nice. I’m glad I had a good experience the first time. I’ve heard so many horror stories from friends and on the Internet. I’m like, “Oh my god. I’m so sorry all of you people went through this. I’m so sorry.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But it was nice.

LEAH: So, that was your first kiss and how did things progress from there?

VIN: Honestly it progressed fast, but for me thinking about it, it did. But I know it was fast, at least for me, a person who’s never had any physical touch or whatever. I want to say we parked after work after playing Pokémon, and then we would go park, and then talk, kiss and we talk, then we kiss. And then I think it was my old car, so it didn’t have an arm rest. So, he was like, “Oh, you should come sit next to me.” I’m like, “Okay.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: “I don’t think I can because I’m pretty big.” I felt really big in that car and it’s like me being self-conscious about how big I am because I’ve always been told I was big. Looking back now, I was not fat. It’s so frustrating because I remember he asked me to come sit next to him as in get up out of the driver’s seat, pass over the arm rest, and come sit at the same seat as him. “My butt’s big. We’re not going to fit, man.”

I felt so, so ashamed that I was not some small size two girl. I just burst in tears. And I was like, “I can’t do this.” He was like, “Oh, it’s okay. It’s okay. I’m so sorry.” And it just came out like, “I’m not pretty. I’m not worth it. I can’t do anything.” I was a very emotional person. I tried to push people away through anger and being mean, but I was a pretty emotional person. I just didn’t want anybody to know. And that one point, I broke down and I was in tears and I was sobbing and it was so hot in that car.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But I remember he took my face in his hands and he’s like, “You’re very pretty. You’re beautiful. Don’t think that about yourself and now come sit in the side seat with me.” And we kissed and we talked. So, it was very slow, but then after I think I accepted the fact within 30 minutes that he thought I was beautiful. Then we started kissing and it definitely got heated up to where we moved to the back seat of the car in the parking lot at the lake in the middle of the night and it was innocent. But at the same time, it wasn’t. Obviously we were kissing and touching each other, but there was always an end goal. For me, I was just lazily picking off like, “Oh, cool. I’m going to touch his shoulders. I’m going to touch his neck. I’m going to touch his hair.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: I remember him asking like, “Can I touch your boobs?” And I was like, “Okay. You can only go on top of the shirt.” And it’s like we slowly progressed. I asked him the other day because I was thinking about it because of your podcast. I was like, “Do you remember if I orgasmed from you touching my boobs over my shirt?” He was like, “Yes. Yes. You did.” I’m like, “Interesting.”

I remember that. I was so excited. I was ready to go. I don’t think I wanted to have sex because I remember him asking me later on in the night like, “Can I go down there?” And I was like, “No.” He respected that, thank God. But I remember I was so excited. I’d never been touched before and he touched my boobs. And I was like, “Holy shit.” And then, boom. I can remember that very explicitly. But he was very nice. He waited for me to finish. It’s the most you can ask for.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. That’s pretty amazing. And so, how long did it take you to proceed to below the belt action?

VIN: I think it was the same night. I think our first kiss and letting him go in my pants. I didn’t let him have sex. I only let him put his hand under my pants with me still having my pants on. I definitely think it was the same night if not the second night or the third night, but it was definitely within three days with me orgasming twice at least. We had just connected so much. He refuses to admit this, but I can remember him saying I love you a lot. “Will you marry me in the future?” And I was like, “Yes.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: It’s so mortifying to think about that. But at the time, I was like, “Hell yeah. Let’s go.” Because I was not raised that way. I didn’t have any of those kinds of influences. But at the time, we just really connected both mentally and physically. It was like, “Yeah. Let’s do this.” I don’t have any regrets, no.

LEAH: How long was it before you got married?

VIN: We got engaged after three months like actually engaged because we both got the same job offer to go to the same place in a different state. We took that, but with my parents being brought up the religious way and the way that my mom got pregnant with my oldest sister when she was 17. So, it was like the middle of high school, they left their small towns and they came and started a new life together without other outside influences. But they didn’t want us to go through me being pregnant when we’re not married because they knew we would be living together. So, they were like, “Okay. You can go.” I’m an adult, I could have told them no.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: “You can go, but you guys need to get married.” And I was like, “Okay. I already knew I was going to marry him. I’m sorry.” But that was definitely the turning point, so I think we got married after three months. Not married, we got engaged after three months, and then we got married another six months I think. It might have been seven or eight. I don’t know. It was definitely we met, had a kiss, had sex, got married all in my 18^th year. It was pretty fast.

LEAH: So, you had sex before you got married?

VIN: Yes. That was something else. I was raised to not have sex before you were married, but at the same time growing up in a modern culture I definitely knew that if the right person came and I was ready, I was just going to do it. I never really had that person come along until my husband, which just happened to be the person I married.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. And so, now you’ve been together for about four years. How has sex developed for you? How has it grown and changed for you?

VIN: It was definitely a struggle at the beginning because before we got married, I had never had a tampon in. I never explored the hole, so that was always a forbidden area. I tried. I tried to get something in there.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: Because I wanted to feel that. Before that, I’d only ever done clit simulation, but I so desperately wanted to do that down there. I couldn’t. I guess I couldn’t find it or I was too tight. I think I was just too tight at the time because later on, whenever I was trying to have sex with him, it wasn’t happening and I was like, “This is too painful. We’re going to have to stop.” He’s like, “Okay. Do you think I’m just too big?” He’s not huge. He’s totally an average guy. He’s like, “Do you think it’s because I’m too big?” I was like, “I think so.” So, he’s like, “Okay. Do you want to go to a sex store and get a small vibrator or a dildo or something to try out?”

LEAH: Good man. I like that.

VIN: I know. I’m so proud of him because at the same time, he really just wanted to have sex, but he did it the right way.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: That’s a very compassionate way to go about it rather than shaming you or telling you there’s something wrong with you. He’s like, “There is a path forward” and he chose the right path.

VIN: He chose the right path.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: I think that if he hadn’t done that, I don’t think we would be together. Not in the same way, I guess. We would have still gotten married. We would still be connected, but I don’t think that if we approached sex in a different way than going to a sex store and getting a small vibrator, it wouldn’t have turned out the same way. I think I would have just tried to push on through it. I would have been fine because you know during sex, sex is a pleasurable act. It’s supposed to feel good and in fanfictions, erotic stories, all those kinds of things, when they’re talking about virgins, they always talk about popping your cherry or the hymen or whatever, so you think it’s going to be painful. But then later, it’s going to be pleasurable. Maybe I just need to do that, but actually I think I should go slower.

LEAH: So, how did that work? The small vibrator and working your way up, how did it work for you?

VIN: So, it’s like I’m pretty sure we worked towards me orgasming before I worked on him orgasming. It was definitely a month-long process at least. I had to be comfortable with me going and he wanted to get me to go. For him, it wasn’t important for him to get off. It was more important for me to get off and make sure I was okay, which I love him so much. Thank God.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: So, I never did anything to him. But for me, he had to learn how to rub my clit the way I needed it to because at the same time, I’ve only done myself from one position with the same position for whoever knows how long. So, it’s like I only knew to get off by myself. When you add an extra hand that’s not yours that you can’t control, you have to do a lot of talking and at the same time. If you’re not used to having the same person every time, it’s like you got to be comfortable having straightforward black and white talk like, “You need to do this and this and this. Do not do this. That’s frustrating.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: “You’re not doing it right.” He’s like, “Okay. We’ll take it really slow” and he got to where he could rub my clit to the point. I don’t think he could make it pleasurable for me, so I think I just had to do it myself, rub my clit myself, and then he would slowly work his way with the vibrator to see it, prod it, rub around it, making sure it’s used to something being down there, period. Not even just inside, just around the opening.

But at the same time, we also explored anal play because obviously this hole was not working but this other hole is open and it’s supposed to be pleasurable. He’s like, “Okay. Do you want to try this?” I was like, “Yeah. Go for it.” And with me rubbing my clit, and then with or without prodding my vaginal opening, and then having a pinky or whatever in my butt, that definitely worked. Actually we thought about trying anal before we did vaginal sex because it just wasn’t working and it was just a slow process. He’s like, “Do you want to try this?” I was like, “Yeah.” And then, we went and got plugs and tried that and I definitely did plugs because it was a new sensation for me at the time. Obviously, I was bigger, so I didn’t want to try and reach back there, there’s just too much work.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But with having somebody else, it was very I don’t want to say helpful, but it was nice to have somebody else back there trying to do something besides me. So, that definitely worked. But eventually we just warmed the toy and I can remember he was like, “Holy shit.” I was like, “What? Am I bleeding? What’s going on?” He was like, “The toy was all the way in.” And I was like, “No, shit.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: We were so excited. Sex was gone, that drive was gone. We were just so amazed. I popped up and we popped up and we were hugging and we went to the bathroom. We’re like, “Holy crap. It’s in. Yes!”

LEAH: I love it;

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: And I remember we went out to dinner and celebrated.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: I don’t think I ever got off that night. We were just so excited that it was finally in something was happening. That vibrator was only I want to say four or five inches long. Even then, it was still sticking out a bit eventually, but it went in more than anything. Before, there was nothing. It would not go in and we eventually worked it, so it’s comfortable with something in there. So that was so nice. So, I think we just went and got a bigger vibrator and tried that, and then I think we tried him. It was like, “Oh, I can do this. Yes.” And then we finally had sex.

LEAH: When you got the larger vibrator, did you have to continue trying it over time? Once it relaxed and opened, were you able to move forward?

VIN: I think it was the problem the toy that we originally started with was about four or five inches without the little handle button thing. And then it was basically a flat cylinder, and then on the very top there was a nub. It was a very, very short L that was rounded. So, that never bothered me. But on the new toy we got, it was definitely larger, which was something I was capable of working with, but it had I don’t want to say sharp ridges, but it was waves almost. Not even a soft wave, it was a sharp wave, I guess.

Yeah. But I think the size was not my problem. That was the only toy that was even remotely cylindrical and smooth. But my problem was having to stretch even further, and then shrinking back down around that ridge. It was just so painful. I was just like, “Stop it. Stop it.” There were so many times it was like, “I can’t do this. I can’t do this right now.” He’s like, “Okay.” Once we got that toy in, we eventually tried having sex and it worked, which was great.

LEAH: Have you been consistency able to have intercourse with him since then?

VIN: Yes. For the most part, yes. Obviously there’s time whenever we just decide we’re not into it or it’s not working, whatever, but I don’t think there’s ever been an actual problem having sex until we actually tried having a successful anal and that was not fun.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So full anal intercourse you mean?

VIN: Yes. Sorry.

LEAH: And that didn’t work for you?

VIN: We can do it very rarely now. If I’m not in the mood, we’re not doing it because it’s just not going to work. But if I’m in the mood and he’s in the mood, he’s always in the mood for anal.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But it’s like, “Do we have time?” Whatever. It definitely is more physically demanding for me than vaginal sex. I’m definitely a princess. I try to be more outgoing, but most of the time I’m just on my back. Part of the reason I’m always on my back is because I’m so uncomfortable with my body and I feel too big to be doing other things than being on my back. Most of the time he doesn’t mind, but with anal, most of the time it’s easiest to do it in a doggy position and just being in that position where I’m not able to face him that was a struggle. I was always trying to turn back and look at him because I needed that mental support. I needed his eye contact.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: The first time we tried that, it was like, “Hey. We can’t do this, not unless I’m looking at you.” It was like way back there trying to get him to look at me.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But eventually we finally got to the point where we can. It’s just way more demanding than normal sex is.

LEAH: Do you enjoy the sex life that the two of you have together?

VIN: Yeah. If you had asked me before your podcast, I would have said, yes. But at the same time, I also didn’t know that some options were explorable and not thought of as weird or too out there or whatever. But now that I’ve listened to your podcast and I’ve listened to other women talk about it, it’s like these things that I’ve read about that I just thought were like, “Oh, this was so out there. I don’t think I could do this. I don’t think I could do that.” Now I can and it’s opened more windows. Before he’s always been, “Okay. Let’s have sex.” It was never me. But now it’s me being, “Okay. Let’s have sex in this way. Let’s try this.” And then he’ll be like, “No, we just did it yesterday.” Now he thinks I’m some kind of sex fiend. Our roles are reversed. This is karma.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, what kinds of things do you want to try?

VIN: I looked at your checklist. It was like, “Oh, I never thought about that. I never thought about that either. Wow. Okay.” The one thing that have really interested me that I’ve tried to hint it at him, I guess I’m just going to have to sit him down and like, “Hey. We’re going to try this.” Whenever either he’s not into it or I’m not into it, just being there and being supportive and maybe rubbing your shoulders or something while I get myself off or he gets himself off, so we’re there. We’re being supportive. We just don’t have to put that energy into I guess connecting in that way.

I’d like to try that because normally if one of us wants to, but the other one doesn’t, either one of us will get in or it just won’t happen. Which for him, he normally just wants to have me there because I’m his sexual thing. He thinks of me sexual and romantically, but he wants me there. But at the same time, if I don’t want to be there at that time, he just doesn’t want it if I’m not there. Because for him, he could go get a Fleshlight or something and it might work him, but he’s just not interested in trying that if I’m an option I guess.

So, it’s like I would like to be there for him in that way. I would love for him to get and try it at least. But if I’m there, he doesn’t want to have to do that. But at the same time, I’m different. I think it’s more that I just want his attention, period. Not even sexual attention. So, it’s like for me, I can just go and get a vibrator. I could do myself in bed. It only takes me three minutes I guess if I really wanted to. But I really just want to be able to have that with him because he definitely gets rejected more than I do.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But that and I don’t know. I can’t think of anything else. There are other things. I just can’t think of them. I’d always thought of role play and stuff, but I just don’t think that’s something that we’ll be able to achieve right now. I wouldn’t mind exploring it, but I just don’t think he’s in a spot right now where he wants to. He’s content with the way things are right now, which is frustrating because I was like, “I want to explore now that I have that door open.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: He’s just shutting that door. I’m like, “Okay. We’ll knock on that door tomorrow.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. Do you have any questions or concerns about your sex life?

VIN: Not really. I’ve been wondering because it’s like I don’t have people in my life to talk about this kind of stuff with, at least not bigger like me. So, it’s like on my body, my number one feature that I’m uncomfortable with is my lower fat roll, which is right there in the middle. And that always makes me the most self-conscious. I’m wondering if people do anything to counteract that whenever they are having sex. If they’re larger and they’re more dominant and they’re on top, do they do anything to have that not bother them?

LEAH: So, there’s a great book that I would highly recommend for you. It’s called Curvy Girl Sex and it is specifically written by a larger woman for larger women about how to use your body during sex so that it’s pleasurable so you get to do lots of different things and so that you get to work around the body that you have rather than trying to change your body or be ashamed of it.

VIN: In Google, there’s so many things. I get so many good answers.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: I read a lot or at least I used to. I can listen to any kind audio book. I can read any physical book but it’s like I have to actually find the good source of information and that’s hard. Nowadays, it’s way more accessible than it was I feel like when I was growing up but I wish I had those kinds of resources that kids nowadays have. When I was a kid, it wasn’t that long ago, but still. I wish I had it.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. Well, check out that book and let me know what you think of it because I would like to know if it’s a good resource for you so I know whether to recommend it to others.

VIN: I read sex books often just because I don’t have that much knowledge. The only knowledge I’ve had is the four years of experience that I already have and it’s not a whole lot.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: At the same time, I’m also bisexual. I’m attracted to women, but the only lesbian in my life is my sister and she’s not doing anything.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: It’s like most of the books that I’ve read are centered towards normal sized or smaller women and how they can interact with people, but obviously they don’t take on effect mental issues that you have with your body or your body type or any things like that, which could be super helpful.

LEAH: Yeah. Once again, we come up against this issue of fat phobia in our culture. Even though a significant portion of the population is over a size 14, the media and books and all of that are not made for that because so much of the focus is on the, “Well, you should be smaller,” so that then you can consume what you already have instead of being realistic about the fact that this is my body. Let’s learn how to use the body I’ve got.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: Yeah. It’s like I also love the fact in previous podcasts, you mentioned Literotica because I thought it was just something I used. It was like, “Holy crap. Yay. There are other people that are just normal people. It’s so nice.”

LEAH: Yeah. So, what are some of the tags that you search in Literotica so that other people might know what kinds of things to look for?

VIN: Well, I remember when I was first starting it or I was actively searching for something like that, I was just looking for books, I think. Something that had a sex scene in it because I only had teenage books to read from. So, I think whenever I first started, I found it by searching just for erotic stories or something. Boom, that’s literally the name of the website.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: So, I think I first started with super simple things because that’s something that’s always bothered me, but it doesn’t bother me now that I’ve listened to your podcast. It’s like some things might interest you but it’s not something you would actually want to do. So, at the beginning, I was first just exploring girls and boys because I’ve never had that experience. I’d never seen a penis until I met my husband. So, it’s like that’s not useful.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: At the same time, I was looking for actual anatomy. What am I actually supposed to do physically? And at the same time, I was also looking for stimulus for me. What am I interested in? So, it was like I think I began with boobs or just sex or just super simple things. I don’t even remember. When you go on there, you can pick what category you want. Do you want fetish or incest or whatever? And I think I just stuck to lesbian sex for a long time because that’s always what interested me because honestly PIV always, I don’t want to say, it stresses me out. It’s not the most attractive thing to me I guess just because I’d never had a male body in my head. It was always just another body.

So, it’s like the only body I knew was a girl body, which was my body, so that was always what attracted me I guess because that’s the only thing I knew. But I think I just started exploring all of those different tabs. And I was like, “There’s this tab. There’s this tab. There’s this tab.” And then I got to the incest tab and that always turned me on. But at the same time, I’m not attracted to my family and that always caused me issues. I don’t think I’ve admitted to my husband or fetish things, those are things that turn me on that interest me, but at the same time that’s not a line I’m willing to cross right now.

LEAH: Yeah. And so, this is not something that we’ve ever talked about in this podcast before. So, I’m going to break in here for a minute to talk about it, which is that incest porn is actually a major category of porn. And I’m not an expert on this, so I can only talk from my own experience, which is that I have also found to some extent that that is a turn on for me. And that has absolutely nothing to do with whether I would actually participate in incest because I wouldn’t. I have zero interest in that.

VIN: It’s like I can think of every single family member I have and it’s just nothing.

LEAH: Yeah. But for me, it’s something about the dominant subservient, the way that a lot of those stories are told that for some reason, that hits a switch for me. And I want to be super clear because I think it’s important for people to hear this. Just because you are interested in reading those stories, just because that gets you a little worked up, does not mean that there is anything wrong with you. That is one of those things where you can have something that gets you excited that you’re not interested in exploring in real life. And there is no data that suggest that just because you read those stories, it then leads you to explore it in real life. That just doesn’t exist.

VIN: Yeah. And it’s so frustrating because growing up in a modern culture, things are accepted. But it’s one of those things that’s never been accepted. It’s not okay. But at the same time, that was always something that interested me just because it made me excited, but thinking about those things growing up or as a teenager in high school or whatever, it was hard to come to terms. I felt so dirty doing these kinds of things, but it’s on here. People read it. It’s okay. But I don’t think I ever came to terms with that until I listened to your podcast.

LEAH: Yeah. It’s actually one of the most popular categories on the various porn sites like Pornhub. Incest porn is one of their most popular and most searched categories.

VIN: That’s something else I like about Literotica is like in these categories, you can look at tags that people do. So, you can just look at all of the tags. But what I like about it is that the more popular it is, the bigger the font is, so you know immediately what is the most popular and what is not popular. So, it’s like when I was exploring whenever I was first doing it, I think I just clicked on those big major tags and I liked exploring those first, and then I got lower and lower and lower in all of these different categories, just so I got some knowledge in my head of, “What is this? What am I missing out? What does this term mean? I don’t know what that means.” So, it’s like just exploring it at the same time.

LEAH: Awesome. So, I’m going to transition us into the Q&A. You ready?

VIN: Yes.

LEAH: Do you have sex during your period?

VIN: If I’m in the mood.

LEAH: Okay. What’s the approximate number of sex partners you’ve had?

VIN: One.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: I wish it were more, but one.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: What’s your favorite sex toy?

VIN: I want to say anal plugs or butt plugs, I guess.

LEAH: What’s your favorite sex position?

VIN: I think I like doggy the most.

LEAH: Are you generally more active or more passive during lovemaking?

VIN: Passive.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: I’m trying to be active, but I’m definitely passive.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Do you prefer clit stimulation or penetration?

VIN: Mostly clit.

LEAH: Do you enjoy having your breasts played with?

VIN: Most of the time, yes. Unless they’re just super sensitive for some reason.

LEAH: Okay. Like around your period or something?

VIN: I’ve never really noticed that. I’ve never noticed that they’re more sensitive. But the more they’re played with, the more sensitive they get. When it gets to the point whenever it’s rubbing against my shirt, it’s a no go.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Got you. That makes sense. Do you think it’s generally easy or challenging for you to orgasm?

VIN: Generally it’s easy. For the first three, it’s definitely easy, but once you get past that, it’s super hard.

LEAH: So, you’re a multi-orgasmic person?

VIN: It depends on the day, but for the most part, yeah.

LEAH: Yeah. Have you ever faked an orgasm?

VIN: Yes.

LEAH: Why did you do it?

VIN: Mainly because I’ve never done it. It was not that I faked an orgasm. It’s that I faked how good it felt I guess, like how vocal I was. It definitely affected that or I didn’t want him to feel bad. Sometimes you can tell they’re working so hard to get you off, but it’s just not going to work. It’s like, “Okay. I’m done. Let’s go.”

LEAH: Yeah. So, do you still do that?

VIN: Very rarely. Most of the time, it’s like, “Okay. We’re done. You can go, but I’m not going to go. I give up.”

LEAH: Yeah. Can you orgasm from intercourse alone without additional stimulation?

VIN: I can. I usually try not to though just because I prefer the orgasm that comes with clit stimulation rather than just intercourse.

LEAH: Sure. Do you prefer the orgasm from masturbating or from sex with another person?

VIN: Definitely sex with another person.

LEAH: What kind of touch do you enjoy most?

VIN: Actually I think I enjoy just I want to say non-sexual touch, but just like hands grazing around my body or just very softly touching me wherever anywhere is great. But at the same time, I also like aggressive stuff. Most of the time, I want to say just anything soft.

LEAH: Yeah. Okay. What are your hard red lines, the things that are absolute nos for you?

VIN: Right now, I don’t want to say there’s anything off the table. It’s more like if we explore something, we’ll go slow. So, for me, I don’t really feel like it’s my red lines than it’s his red lines. So, it’s not like we do anything wild, so I don’t know. I want to say right now I would say sex with another person. We might go out and do something, but we won’t be able to do with another person together at least.

LEAH: Are there sexual things you’ve tried that you don’t want to do again?

VIN: I don’t think there’s anything that we’ve tried that I wouldn’t do again. We might not do it often, but it’s never been a hard no.

LEAH: How do you feel about the idea of your partner masturbating without you in the room?

VIN: I’m fine with it. I do it. He might as well do it.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: How do you feel about your partner watching porn?

VIN: I’m fine with it. Most of the time, I don’t think there’s ever anything that he would watch that would bother me, either I haven’t seen or I haven’t been interested in that he would be.

LEAH: Yeah. Do you have hair down there or are you bare?

VIN: I definitely have hair. It’s too hard to shave.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Have you ever had a threesome or more?

VIN: No, but I want to.

LEAH: If you were to have one, what would the gender makeup be, your preference?

VIN: We’ve actually talked about it and it would have to be a girl. I don’t know if I’d ever want another boy unless I’d already had a girl because we’ve talked about it and he’s always said he’d be interested in seeing me with a girl. But at the same time, I’ve never been with a girl. So, it’s like it’d have to be me with a girl first before me and him and her.

LEAH: Yeah. Sure. Do you enjoy giving blow jobs?

VIN: Not especially unless I’m in the mood, but I can do them.

LEAH: What do you not like about it?

VIN: I don’t know if something I do actually works or if it’s just the general feeling of what I’m doing that works. So, it’s like I will try different things. I can ask him questions like, “Is this doing something? Is this doing something? Can you feel this? Is this doing anything?” He’s like, “Yeah. It’s good. It’s good.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: So, you’re not helping me if whether or not I’m doing better or worse.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: It’s such a frustrating thing because he’s so vague about his answers. I’m like, “I want to do this better. I need answers.” But he’s just like, “Oh, it’s all good. It’s all good.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: My partner is really good about giving me feedback about blow jobs in particular, but pretty much everything else he’s the same way. “Yeah. It’s good. I like it. It’s good.”

VIN: That’s not helpful.

LEAH: That’s not helpful.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: “Can you actually feel this? Is it just nothing?” He’s like, “Oh, I can feel this.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: If he gives me any feedback, it’s like, “I can feel too much teeth or I can feel your fingernails or something.” It’s like, “Thank you. I already knew that part. I’m just testing you now at this point.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: When you give a blow job do you swallow or not?

VIN: Unless I’m feeling especially grateful or just being very proud of him. It’s a very special occasion if I swallow.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Do you enjoy receiving oral sex?

VIN: Not really. I wish I did. I don’t know if it’s just because I don’t have very much experience with that or if he’s doing it wrong or if I just don’t like it. It’s just something I haven’t really figured out yet.

LEAH: Do you ever worry about how you smell or taste?

VIN: Not particularly with him unless I’m on my period. Mainly when I’m out and about and I can just randomly smell myself. I’m like, “Oh my god.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: But I think unless I’m just extra juicy that day or something, I’ll be self-conscious about it, but most of the time not.

LEAH: How do you feel about receiving ass play?

VIN: I like it.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: Most of the time, yeah.

LEAH: How do you feel about giving ass play?

VIN: I would love to but he is so hard against it. He’s like, “No. Absolutely not.”

LEAH: Does he think that that would make him gay or is he just squeamish about that part of the body?

VIN: I think he’s just squeamish. It’s just funny because going to the bathroom is his favorite part of the day.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: He looks forward to taking a bath and going to the bathroom and pampering himself in the bathroom. But at the same time, he doesn’t want me down there in that area. I’ll poke him in the butt sometimes. He’s like, “No. You can’t do that.” I’m like, “Someday.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: What do you consider the kinkiest thing you enjoy?

VIN: Would you say physically or reading or something?

LEAH: Either.

VIN: Physically, we haven’t really done anything kinky except for exhibitionism I guess in physical. And then probably fetish reading about it, fetish diapers. That’s always been frustrating with me, but it’s something that I enjoy reading about, but it’s not something I would do.

LEAH: Sure. Do you enjoy dirty talk during sexual encounters?

VIN: Neither of us are really good at it at this point, so no. But yes, that is something that would interest me if we got better at it.

LEAH: Do you enjoy laughter during sexual encounters?

VIN: Yes.

LEAH: Have you ever felt a sexual urge that confused you?

VIN: Yes.

LEAH: What was it?

VIN: Just reading and enjoying different things that I was always taught not to enjoy or that just wasn’t something I was taught about explicitly. So it’s like, “Is this okay or is this not okay?” It’s always vague. So mainly just reading about different subjects that I didn’t know about.

LEAH: Yeah. What is your favorite part of your body?

VIN: I’ll say my eyes, my face I guess, which is frustrating because I don’t like any part of my body really. So, if I had to pick, I’d probably pick my face. I probably would have said my hair, but I just bleached my hair for the first time. So, it’s my face.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So, nobody else can see you, but I can see you and you are so adorable. You are just sunshine and light.

VIN: Thank you. I’m really energetic right now. I’ve got an adrenaline rush. We’re doing this serious talk and I’m high right now on adrenaline. Most of the time, I’m very serious in person.

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: People don’t talk to me at work like, “Oh, she’s mad. She’s angry all the time.”

[LAUGHTER]

VIN: No, I’m just quiet. You can talk to me or not. It’s okay.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: What is your least favorite part of your body?

VIN: Definitely my stomach. My boobs don’t really bother me, but they are flabby just because they’re part of my stomach, I guess. But it’s definitely my stomach.

LEAH: Okay. What is something about your current sex life that isn’t quite as satisfying as you’d like it to be?

VIN: I really wish that I could get him off more times than he does. Most of the time we save him for last because he only goes once. I could work on him all night and he’d only go once and that’s it. But with me, we usually do me a bunch of times before we do him because that’s part of his sex part that he likes. He likes getting me off, but I like him getting off at the same time. But it’s like I can only do it once at the very end.

LEAH: Yeah. But what about playing with him and stopping just before he gets there?

VIN: I already do that. But at the same time, once he does orgasm, he’s done. He loses all interest. So, if I don’t get off before him, then he feels bad, but he can’t get back into it to help me. So, I don’t have a choice but to go before him. But at the same time, I want to get him off maybe two or three times at least to make him feel the way I do.

LEAH: Yeah. What belief did you have about sex as a child or teenager that you wish you could go back and correct her on now?

VIN: I definitely wish I could go tell her that it’s okay to think about it because it always made me feel dirty. You don’t need to group marriage with sex so early because it’s okay to mess around and go have sex and explore different things. You don’t have to wait for marriage.

LEAH: Excellent. Vin, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for having this conversation with me.

VIN: This was fun.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: That’s it for today. Good Girls Talk About Sex is produced by me, Leah Carey, and edited by Gretchen Kilby. I have additional administrative support from Lara O’Connor and Maria Franco. Transcripts are produced by Jan Acielo.

And I’m incredibly grateful for the financial support from Good Girls Talk About Sex community members at Patreon. If you’d like to support me in telling these stories and answering your questions, head over to www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex. You can find Show Notes and Show Transcripts at www.goodgirlstalk.com. To ask a question about your sex life, your desires or anything to do with female sexuality, call and leave a message at 720-GOOD-SEX.

And before we go, I want to remind you that the things you’ve probably heard about your sexuality are not true. You are worthy. You are desirable. You are not broken. I work with women just like you to reflect their true sexual nature back to them without the judgment, shame or fear that can get in the way of us seeing it for ourselves. As a coach and PJ party hostess, I will guide you in embracing the sexuality that is innately yours no matter what it looks like. I’m here to help you sink so deeply you’re your true sexuality that the version of yourself that was scared to speak for her own needs feels like a mirage from another lifetime.

Until next time, here’s to your better sex life!

[MUSIC]