I lied about orgasms every time – Brianna (part 1)

LEAH: Welcome to Good Girls Talk About Sex. I am Sex and Intimacy Coach Leah Carey and this is a place to share conversations with all sorts of women about their experience of sexuality. These are unfiltered conversations between adult women talking about sex. If anything about the previous sentence offends you, turn back now! And if you’re looking for a trigger warning, you’re not going to get it from me. I believe that you are stronger than the trauma you have experienced. I have faith in your ability to deal with things that upset you. Sound good? Let’s start the show!

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Hey friends. Let me tell you the best kind of problem for me to have. When I’m editing an interview that’s so good, I can’t bear to cut anything out. In fact, that’s how the idea to do extra audio excerpts on Patreon came. I was having to leave so much good conversation on the cutting room floor to get to a 42-ish minute episode but I still wanted you to hear everything. If you’re not a Patreon supporter yet, there’s information on the mid-show break to get you started. But this week’s guest is a whole other ball of wax, I couldn’t seem to cut this conversation with Brianna down to the usual 42 minutes no matter how hard I tried. So, this week, I’ve decided to go do something I’ve never done before. You’re actually going to hear the whole interview here on the podcast feed split into two parts over two days.

As for the formal introduction, Briana is a 30 year old, white cisgender female who describes herself as bisexual, married, and until recently, monogamous. She and her husband have two children, are active in their church, and recently began exploring swinging. So today you get this Part 1 where Brianna talks about growing up and her early relationships up through the beginning of her talks with her husband about possibly exploring swinging. Then tomorrow, you’ll get Part 2 where Brianna details their recent entrance to the swinger lifestyle. She spares no details about how they discovered their mutual interest in swinging, their early conversations, and their first experiences. She talks about the state of their relationship and how swinging has affected it, her feelings about monogamy, jealously and so much more. If you’ve ever wondered about swinging, don’t miss this conversation. I’m so pleased to introduce Brianna!

I know I say this at the beginning of every episode. I’m so excited to talk to you. But it’s true every time. I got your email and your story is one that I’ve been hoping to tell in some way and hadn’t found anybody to talk to about it. I was absolutely thrilled when you contacted me so thank you.

BRIANNA: Well, thank you. I was so thrilled when you were so eager with your response. It was very quick and I thought, “She probably isn’t even going to want to talk to me.” And then you reached out so soon and I’m so tickled to be here and just so glad to be talking to you.

LEAH: Awesome. Well, let’s dive right in. So the first question I ask everyone es what is your first memory of sexual pleasure?

BRIANNA: When I was in about first grade, I had a little friend of mine and she was a girl. And she came over to my house and we played in the yard and then we went inside and we were playing husband and wife, or family, or whatever you want to call it, and we just kind of started kissing and we ended up in my bed and she was kind of petting me a little bit and then I was petting her. And that was my first memory of sexual desire and I felt like such a freak over that thought. This is so not normal but I’ve heard other woman talk about that on your podcast and it’s not that uncommon from what I understand, so that was my first memory of sexual desire.

LEAH: Did you feel like a freak at the time? Or was that a label you put on it later as you grew up and got more of the sexual programming that we get in our culture?

BRIANNA: I didn’t really feel like a freak at the time because I really didn’t know what was going on. But as I grew up and came into my sexual identity, that’s when I was like, “Wait a minute.” And I didn’t even really put that together until I had started listening to your podcast and I was like, “That was the first memory I had of that.” But I’ve always been kind of a sexual person probably even before that, I just didn’t realize it.

LEAH: Yeah, so did you continue playing with that little girl over time?

BRIANNA: No, I just remember the one time but it happened with other little girls over the course of my childhood but I don’t think I was the one initiating it. There were other little girls and actually the first girl it happened with, she had older sisters and I don’t know if they had played that game or whatever but that was how it kind of played out for us was. And then now looking back on it, I’m thinking, “Well. She had older sisters and maybe they were playing house?” I don’t know but she knew about it. I didn’t know about that and that’s kind of how it came to be and I can think of three other little girls that that happened with in similar situations but we didn’t know what we were doing. We just knew that it felt good. We were just playing house.

LEAH: Yeah. So I know that you grew up in a very religious home in a Baptist home. Were these other little girls growing up also in religious homes, do you know?

BRIANNA: I know for sure that one of them was but the first little girl that it happened with I don’t believe so and another little girl, I don’t believe so. So I would classify my area of the country as being religious and conservative area, but I know for sure that two of those girls were not churched, I guess you would say.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: I don’t know if that has any relevance to anything I’m just curious like if there are messages that are coming through to you that young, if maybe there’s already some sort of resistance against those messages at that age or if it’s just purely a question of playing house like so many kids do.

BRIANNA: Right, for sure. Even my children play house. I do wonder about that but I would never shame them in any way about that but I do wonder about it. Does that happen with them? But I don’t want to like invade their privacy but also the same time, they don’t get it, but now as an adult thinking back on it, I’m like, “That was sexual desire.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: How far did you go during those I guess I would call them play sessions even though I have a different meaning for that now?

BRIANNA: I even think there was one time that it was you stripped down nude and get under the covers. I don’t even remember any touching of that area but maybe almost like scissoring type of thing. Really, if I’m honest, that’s kind of how it was.

LEAH: Wow. So we have established that you call yourself bisexual now, as you were growing up through your tween and teen years, would you have called yourself heterosexual?

BRIANNA: I would have labeled myself as that but I did have some instances where I had interactions with girls, not anything more than kissing or making out but I would have labeled myself as heterosexual. But now looking back on it, I could see where I was interested in women at that time.

LEAH: I think that is such a common story. Yeah. So how do I ask this question, those experiences with little girls were just sort of play time and then whatever point you had your first serious interest in touching a boy, kissing a boy, was there any confusion for you in that?

BRIANNA: I don’t think so. I just kind of felt that desire again I would say and I didn’t feel confused that it was a boy instead of a girl or anything like that. It was just like, “I’m interested in this. I’m game for this.”

LEAH: So let’s talk about your first entree into the world of sexuality.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: When it was not with a little girl.

BRIANNA: Okay, so are we talking about sex or just kind of playing?

LEAH: Well, let’s talk about playing, yeah.

BRIANNA: Well, I was in middle school, and I had a boyfriend that I probably dated for the whole of middle school, and when we had an opportunity which was not very often, we would make out and maybe have some heavy petting is what I would consider it now. There was nothing major going on. I mean I did kind of go down on him I guess you could say but I had no idea what I was doing, right? And I didn’t even know, I had no idea what I was doing. I had heard the term giving head and going down and all that but I had no idea what that entailed. I didn’t even know like how the guy got off or I mean I didn’t even know that you get off, I didn’t know what an orgasm was, I was just really young and naïve and I had no idea. But I mean I went down on him but to completion I didn’t go down on him.

LEAH: Did you go down on him because he asked you to or encouraged you or did you come up with that on your own?

BRIANNA: He encouraged that. I don’t think I even knew what that was until he had initiated that. And then I was like, “What? No!”

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA: That is so not right.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And did he reciprocate, did he god won on you?

BRIANNA: No.

LEAH: Yeah, of course not.

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA: We were so young. I don’t know that we could have ever had that opportunity right? Because we were doing this at the back of the theatre that would have been the only time we could have done anything. And I mean realistically, him going down on me was a no-go and probably I would have been like, “Oh. Hell no. This is not happening.”

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA:”You’re crazier than hell.”

LEAH: So I want to keep going through your teenage experiences but I want to back up first and talk a little bit about your childhood home and what the messages you were getting in your childhood home around sex and sexuality and who you were as a female.

BRIANNA: My mom was very open about sex but not in a way that would condone sexual activity but because she had me as a teenager, and so she didn’t want the same thing to happen to me. She didn’t want me to have a teenage pregnancy, so she was very adamant about, “If you ever become sexually active, please tell me. And we can take the necessary steps to prevent a pregnancy or prevent a sexually transmitted disease or whatever the case may be. You want to be safe about it and everything.”

But she didn’t condone it. I grew up Baptist and at the time, we were churched. But my mother was very I guess radical because she talked to me about the dangers of having sex because I could have a teenage pregnancy or a sexually transmitted disease and so she wanted to make sure that that didn’t happen to me.

But I was very naive and even after I figured out what sex was. I thought my parents did not have sex because they were not very affectionate with each other and I grew up in a really loving home. My mother especially loved me. I never questioned her love for me but now my dad was more of a passive parent.

I never really felt love from my dad. I never seen him love my mom. And there were some instances of cheating in my house and so, I had a lot of hard feelings about that because it just really shaped me now that I look back on it, I can see that because there was some infidelity in my house growing up, I felt like I couldn’t trust people as an adult even now.

LEAH: So your dad was cheating on your mom?

BRIANNA: Yes.

LEAH: Did you know at the time that it was going on or did you figure it out later?

BRIANNA: My mom actually talked to me about it one night because I kept asking what is going on. What is going on with you guys? I can tell that something is really off and I was just picking up on a lot of things going on in the house and I was asking questions and my mom ended up telling me. I was pretty young to hear that but my mom was pretty open and so she just told me. This is what’s going on.

LEAH: So she knew and she stayed in the marriage?

BRIANNA: She did.

LEAH: And how did you feel about that decision that she stayed?

BRIANNA: I was questioned her decision on that because I thought if that were me like I would not have stayed because it was pretty serious. Everybody kind of knew about it and it was humiliating. I really questioned her on that, “Why would you stay?” Because in my mind he was not very affectionate towards her. What did she have to stay for? There was not a lot of, in my eyes, now I don’t know because I don’t know what went on behind closed doors but to me, I felt like he was not a very loving husband and then he cheated on her and I felt like he completely betrayed her and she had every right to leave him but she didn’t.

LEAH: Are they still together?

BRIANNA: They are.

LEAH: Wow. And how do you feel about that now?

BRIANNA: Well, I’ve kind of healed about that since the time that that happened because I was in middle school but I think that I guess I kind of have hard feelings towards my dad over that but the majority of the way I feel about it comes out in distrust for people because I felt like I couldn’t trust him. We weren’t enough for him and I’ve always kind of felt like I wasn’t enough.

LEAH: Yeah, that’s hard. So you’ve mentioned that you were in the church, what were you hearing in the church about sex and sexuality?

BRIANNA: When I was growing up, it was during the time of the True Love Waits Movement, and so it was sex is so bad. You don’t ever do it. You don’t ever think about it. It’s so bad you have to wait until marriage or you’re going straight to hell.

LEAH: Wow, that’s a lot.

BRIANNA: Yes, it was extreme.

LEAH: And so when you started fooling around with boys

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: In middle school and high school, did you feel like it was okay because you’re not going all the way or did you feel like this was sort of gray area?

BRIANNA: I just didn’t think about it.

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA: I would be like, “This is really fun. I like this.” But now that I think about it this happens now that makes me a bad person, so I would just do it and then be like, “Oh, I’m good. That didn’t happen.”

LEAH: Yeah, that’s an interesting level of dissociation from your own experience.

BRIANNA: Right?

LEAH: Yeah. Wow. So did you have a purity ring or anything like that?

BRIANNA: No, but it was during that purity ring movement. It was a big deal but no, I didn’t have a purity ring. I wasn’t committed.

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA: I was like, “Screw that. No, I’m out.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And I’m always so curious about this in the religious traditions where they say sex is very bad before marriage, but then you get to the wedding night and all of a sudden, you’re supposed to be able to flip a switch and know exactly what to do and how to please your husband. How did they talk about that? How did they “prepare” you?

BRIANNA: I was not prepared for marriage other than my own preparation.

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA: But they did not prepare me for that. If I would’ve went into my wedding night with knowledge I have about sex given to me from school or church, and I would have probably gotten divorced the next day.

[LAUGHTER]

[MUSIC]

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Now let’s get back to the show.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: So let’s keep talking about high school or teenage stuff, you have the first gropings it sounds like in middle school, what happened next?

BRIANNA: Oh man, this is a doozey. But I had a boyfriend in high school and he was older than me and I had told him that I was not going to have sex until I was married. I mean I probably said something like, “Ill suck your dick but I am not going to screw you like that’s not going to happen because I am going to be virgin until I’m married.” And we had that conversation and then the next thing I know it was a Sunday, and we had went to church with my family.

We were probably fondling with each other and making out and this was on the couch. And my parents would have been very close by us and he tried to penetrate me and I said, “No. I already told you I’m not having sex.” But I was trying to be very quiet because my parents were nearby. And I like this guy and I wanted my parents to like this guy. Anyhow, he proceeded to penetrate me without my permission or whatever and so it was a really sad, sad thing because it was something that I wasn’t really going for and it just kind of happened. And I said, “No.”

And then for the rest of my life after that, I thought it was my fault because I could have shouted no. I could have punched him in his throat. I mean I don’t know what I could have done but I always thought that I could have done more to stop it. And so, I didn’t actually classify that as non-consensual sex until I started listening to your podcast and realized that was non-consensual sex and that was a big moment for me because I realized that he took something from me that I wasn’t offering.

And that was huge moment for me when I realized because I always saw that one particular instance and then the way things played out after that, I continued to date him for a couple of years and I continued having sex with him for a couple of years. I took that on myself. I took responsibility for that because it was my fault. I could have said no. But then look what happened afterwards, I was a slut anyway or else why would I have gave it up after that? So that was kind of the identity that I took on after that.

LEAH: So you didn’t identify it as an assault at the time?

BRIANNA: No.

LEAH: How did you feel about the sex?

BRIANNA: I cried about it. I was very sad about it. I don’t think I cried in front of him but I cried after he left and went home. I was very sad because I felt like I had lost something very precious, because of my Baptist upbringing, I felt like this was the end of the world and he had to marry me now. That was basically how I felt. But he was a real shit-ass. He was a dick. So over the course of the next two years, of course I did not want to marry him but then I felt bound to him in some way.

LEAH: And was the sex that you had in that ongoing relationship consensual?

BRIANNA: After the first few weeks of it, I did have consensual sex but I didn’t get any pleasure from it. But I did have consensual sex for the next probably a year or two.

LEAH: And he used condoms?

BRIANNA: No.

LEAH: Really?

BRIANNA: No. He never used a condom the first time. Never.

LEAH: Wow. So I guess I just want to pause here and I have heard you say that you now recognize that that was non-consensual but I really want to reaffirm that you did nothing wrong and that especially in a culture that teaches us to be good little girls, that the idea of how to say no or how to fight back especially when you’re like, “My parents are in the next room and I’m not supposed to be doing this anyway” like there are a lot of factors there that make it not at all surprising to me that you didn’t know how to speak up or how to take the next step but that was assault. And I’m really sorry that you had that experience.

BRIANNA: Well, thank you for saying that. And I’m glad that now I can look back at that and say, “That was assault and that was nonconsensual sex.” And I don’t want to classify myself as a victim over that because I’ve learned a lot from that and I found my voice through that. And so all in all, I wouldn’t say I’m glad that happened because I wish that I could have been in control of that situation of giving my virginity up, it would have been my choice but it all panned out.

And I’m not completely scarred over it but it’s just a really sad situation and from what I understand from listening to your podcast, that happens very often and it puts me on guard in regards to my own children. And that is going to be that a way to speak about sex that was different in the way I was spoken to about say.

I’m not saying that I wasn’t spoken to in the right way about it but if I would have known that it is my choice. It is my body. I can do what I want to with it, things would have happened differently that day. And who knows, I may never have had a sexual relationship with him and I could have waited until I was ready for that because at the age I was, I was not ready for that. I had no idea what it meant and I wasn’t ready physically or emotionally for that type of encounter.

LEAH: So what do you want to say to your kids as they grow up? How do you want to talk to them about sex?

BRIANNA: I really want to have open lines of communication with them and I want them to know that they can talk to me about anything and if they don’t want to talk to me about anything that is completely fine. But I will not judge them for their sexual desires. It is normal.

I see it already. I can tell that it tickles. I mean that’s just the way it is. And so I don’t ever want them to feel shame about that so if I see them maybe kind of fondling themselves in front of people, I say, “Hey. That’s totally cool man. You just need to go to your room and you can do that and that is fine because it tickles and it feels fine and Woohoo!” That’s totally fine.

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA: And so I really do think that if they waited until they were a little bit older maybe their brains may be caught up with their hormones that they’re experiencing, because I was so young that I couldn’t really understand what was happening. And If I would have waited, I think it would have been a lot better for me.

LEAH: So how old were you during that first relationship?

BRIANNA: I was 14.

LEAH: Wow. Yeah. So how did you get out of it?

BRIANNA: Well, my parents ended up telling me that I wasn’t allowed to see him anymore because he was a dick. But because I was such a rebel, I continued to see him behind their backs at this point. I’d be driving and so I would go and see him and then one day, it just clicked with me.

He is such a dick. He does not care about me in any way. He just really wants to use me. And so it just clicked with me one day and I don’t have a specific instance. Nothing happened it just clicked in my brain and I was like, “I don’t like him. He is really mean to me. And I don’t appreciate it. So I am done.” And so he came to my place of work, and I took a break, and I went out and I talked to him and I said, “I’m done with you. Don’t call me. I’m changing my phone number. I don’t ever want to see you again.” And that was the end of it. I changed my phone number and he was out of my life.

LEAH: Wow, very brave.

BRIANNA: I was just so done. I wish I could have came to that point much sooner but I learned a lot of lessons through that relationship so it’s probably a good thing.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So what happened next? How long was it until your next relationship?

BRIANNA: I didn’t really have a serious relationship after that until I met my husband. I kind of just played the field, I guess you’d say for a couple of years and then I met my husband and we were fairly young.

We started dating when we were 17 but because of the experience that I’d had with my first boyfriend, I would not have sex with him or I would not do anything with him physically. And so I put a timeline on it. I said, “If you want to wait around, we’re looking at a month before I do anything with you”, because I didn’t want him coming after me in a physical way because of what I had been through with my previous boyfriend. So I thought I’m going to have the upper hand here. It’s going to be my choice and I’m going to make the rules here.

LEAH: And when you say you’re not going to do anything, does that include kissing or petting?

BRIANNA: I think we kind of kissed, maybe made out a little bit. But for sure there was no oral sex or actual sex. Nothing happened until it was my call.

LEAH: Got you. I love that.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Are you aching to explore new vistas of your sexuality?

Do you hear me talk about concepts on this show and think, “It makes sense, but I need help applying it to my particular situation!”

That’s where personalized sex and intimacy coaching comes in!

When you work with me, I promise to help you feel safe exploring your sexuality. Together we’ll look at your needs and desires without judgment, and help you figure out how to fulfill them.

There is no single answer that’s right for everyone, so I’m going to help you discover what’s right FOR YOU! And we’ll go at your pace – that’s the pace that respects your emotional needs, your boundaries, and your nervous system.

Because going too fast can send you into shut down, while going too slow can be infuriating and exhausting! The goal is to find what’s right FOR YOU!

I work with clients who are motivated to explore many different areas of sexuality, including things like:

Expressing your sexual desires to current or future partners
Exploring if you might be queer
Challenging body image insecurity in sexual relationships
Dipping your toes into BDSM
Exploring consensual non-monogamy
Learning to date after a long time out of the dating pool
Exploring your sexuality for later-in-life virgins
And more!

I want you to have a deeply fulfilling intimate life, and together we can help you get there.

For more information and to schedule your free Discovery Call, visit www.leahcarey.com/coaching. That’s www.leahcarey.com/coaching.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: So I didn’t realize we were going to your husband quite so quickly because you did mention there was a period of time where you were paying the field and a few minutes ago, you used the word that you were kind of slutty, so I’m curious about that in between time. And by the way, I have no baggage on the word slutty. I mean if we’re out there having fun and it’s what we want, I’m all for it.

BRIANNA: Yes. Well, I had a period of time where I broke up with this guy and I was done with him and I actually really used sex as an attention seeking means to an end. I just wanted to have sex just because I knew I would get attention over it and that’s kind of how I was playing my cards. So, I had sex with a couple of different guys and I was not their girlfriend and they were not my boyfriend. It was just kind of a free for all I guess. It just kind of happened and I was fine with that. But I wasn’t in a serious relationship with anyone.

LEAH: And so you felt comfortable with that level of connection that you could have sex with them? And it was okay that you weren’t in a relationship?

BRIANNA: Yes. I actually kind of thought that it would work in my favor because I wasn’t trying to strap him down, I was just like, “Hey, let’s do this thing that feels good and we’re just going to do it and we’re just going to enjoy it. And I’m not going to be your girlfriend and you don’t have to introduce me to your mother like we’re good.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So what was different about your husband? How did you know you wanted to have a relationship with him and make him wait?

BRIANNA: That’s interesting because I hadn’t thought about that because I didn’t do that with the other guys. But I knew there was something special about him and I just love him.

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA: But anyway, I knew that I was going to marry him before we were even dating. I knew it. We just had this chemistry and I actually told my mother, I said, “I’m going to marry this guy.” And I knew it instinctively. And that’s probably why I said I have very strong feelings towards him and I don’t want him coming after me for a piece of ass. So if he really is interested in me, he’ll wait. I mean, a month, really, come on, is that that long to wait?

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: But you were 17, it is!

BRIANNA: It was eternity, really.

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA: I mean I really wanted to but I stuck to my guns. I actually read that in Cosmopolitan. If you really like a guy and you really want to see if he likes you, you make him wait for one month and let’s see how that pans out and it really panned out well for me.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: That’s awesome. So when you got to the 31^st day and you said, “Okay. Now, we can have sex.” How was it?

BRIANNA: It was good. It was good. I mean we were 17 it was as good as it could be at 17 years old.

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA: But I mean it was enjoyable. I didn’t climax but I had never climaxed with anybody other than myself.

LEAH: So you were masturbating at that point?

BRIANNA: Yes.

LEAH: And did you have pleasure from masturbating?

BRIANNA: Yes. And I masturbated from a very young age probably around the time that I had my first experience with one of those little girls. I would have started masturbating around that time. Probably not with my hand but I would maybe be laying on the bed a certain way and I would feel that and so, I would almost hump the bed and be like, “Oh, that feels really good.” And then, I would climax. I didn’t know what that was but I would continue doing it until I felt that great feeling and I was like, “Heck yeah!”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And so you were climaxing with yourself and then you are having sex with your then boyfriend now husband, at what point did you start climaxing with him?

BRIANNA: It was about two months into our sexual relationship and I was on top one day. And you can be more in control of that. I mean at 17 I had never climaxed from anyone from oral sex or fingering or actual sex like it was not a thing. And this one day, I was on top and I actually got off and I had kind of lied about it. I had pretended every time that we had sex that I had gone off and I really did enjoy it. I did enjoy it.

Sex with my husband even at 17 was so much better than any sex I’d ever had before so even when I wasn’t climaxing, it was really great. But when that day happened and I got off, it was like literally I was seeing stars. I was like this is what it’s all about and so, I actually had to confess about it. I mean I’m sure I had this look on my face like, “Seriously?” So I actually had to confess to him and say, “Listen. I lied all those other times. I never got off and I’m sorry but I just got off and it was like mesmerizing. I’m digging it.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And how did he respond?

BRIANNA: Oh, he was so elated. I thought he would be pissed because I lied for two months or whatever how long it had been but he was like, “I did that. Yes! That’s awesome!”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Oh, that’s so great. I like him already.

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA:  I know, he’s a great guy. He really is.

LEAH: So I don’t know how to elegantly lead you into this part of the story.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: The reason that you contacted me was that you said that you and your husband had gotten involved in swinging and so I’m just going to lay that out there and ask you to tell the story in whatever way works for you.

BRIANNA: Okay. Well, we had never really considered the idea of swinging. We’ve been together since a very young age and we’ve been together for quite a number of years and so we’ve always had a very fulfilling sex life. We just were literally two rabbits going at each other like 24/7. If we didn’t’ have children and jobs, we would do nothing else.

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA: We just cannot keep our hands off of each other. But we were planning a trip away for our anniversary rand we were looking at sandals and all these resorts and I was like, “Oh, wow that sounds so great. I cannot imagine seven whole days without a kid asking me for a snack and a drink and wipe my butt and whatever else.” So I was like, “Oh, that sounds so great.”

And he actually found Desire in Mexico in Cancun. And when I first looked at it, I said “Oh, hell no. There is no way that I’m going to a nudist resort that has people there who are swingers. I mean, seriously? No. It’s not going to happen.” And I actually left it at that for a few days. And then, I just started looking at the website and I started looking at a few different things. There’s a forum about it so I started looking at it and I was like, “Man, this sounds like my kind of place.”

LEAH: What was it about it that made it your kind of place?

BRIANNA: It was you could be naked if you wanted to, you could have sex if you wanted to, you could have oral sex if you wanted to. I mean basically there are no rules and I already told you, I don’t like rules. I feel very confined by rules so my entire life has been lived on a rule system. And so when I found out there was this place where there was no rules and I could literally bang my husband wherever I want to. Other than the restaurants, that is the one rule.

[LAUGHTER]

BRIANNA: I can comply with that. But I found out about it and I started reading about it and I mean I just dove into it. And then I started listening to podcasts of people who go to Desire and also there’s a podcast Room 77, people who actually sold everything they owned and went there and now, they do a sensual massage class there. And so they do a podcast and so I was so in. So we booked a trip and we started talking about what’s going to happen when we get there like what if somebody comes on to us.

LEAH: So let me just pause here for a second. Your interest it sounds like was primarily in the ability to be publicly nude and to have public sex, were you at all interested at this point in engaging with other people outside of your primary partnership?

BRIANNA: No. When I first started researching the trip, no., I was not interested in anyone else but the more I started researching it, I figured out it’s a lifestyle, swinger friendly resort and we have to ask ourselves these questions like would we be okay with this? What if somebody comes onto us? What if this happens? What if that happens?

And we had to really start examining ourselves and our relationship and the most interesting thing happened. We started communicating like we had never communicated before. Just like open lines of communication, not that we didn’t have that before but I think there were sexual fantasies that we never discussed with each other just because we thought, “Oh. That is too freakish. We cannot share that.” Even though we were in a very loving relationship where we were very open with our emotions and open with our sexual desires, even then we didn’t go that far.

LEAH: So what kinds of fantasies were you having that you weren’t speaking out loud?

BRIANNA: Well, my husband had a fantasy of me with another woman. He also fantasized with me with another man and I had fantasies about me being with another woman and him being with another woman.

LEAH: Very convenient.

BRIANNA: Yes! It just so totally worked out.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: This feels like an excellent place to leave it for today, on the cusp of Brianna and her husband planning their first trip to a nudist swingers resort. Don’t forget Part 2 of this interview will be in your feed tomorrow. In the meantime, leave a review at www.ratethispodcast.com/goodgirls and have a great day!