I saw myself through the male gaze – Diana

LEAH: Hi friends. I’ve got two big announcements before we get started this week, both of which I’m really excited about.

First, I want to tell you a quick story a couple of years ago when I was deep in the midst of my journey of sexual freedom. I was a couple of months into my solo road trip around the country and I was beginning to realize that this trip was about way more than sightseeing. It was about healing my relationship with my body and with my sexuality. I’d started getting a little brave.

When I was in Washington DC, I turned on a dating app and I even flirted with a couple of people, which until then, was kind of unheard of. One of those flirtations led to a date. It wasn’t a set the world on fire kind of date but we had good chemistry and it was enough for me to want to see him again. The next morning, I was talking with my coach, Jessi Kneeland, who I have interviewed on this podcast a couple of times. I told her that he’d said that he wanted to see me again and I was considering the possibility of having sex with him. And I knew that it was only our second date and that I’d probably never see him again after that night. And I said to Jessi, “Is that terrible?” And Jessi’s response, which I’ll never forget, was, “I’m really interested that you’re asking is it terrible instead of could it be fun?”

Well, that really got my attention. So I said to her, “It’s because I’m scared. I want to be brave. I want to do all of the things. I want to have all of the experiences but I’m so frightened.” And Jessi said, “Rather than trying to do it all at once, what would it look like if you were just 5% braver? What would you do if you were 5% braver this week than you were last week?” That concept rang so true for me that it became the guiding principle throughout the rest of my journey. What is the choice that I can make this week that is 5% braver than what I did last week?

And that principle led me to all sorts of adventures. Wild things like visiting a sex resort or having a threesome with people I had just met on the Internet. Deeply healing things like training myself in sexual communication and embracing nudity as a path to body acceptance. And lifechanging things like settling in Portland, Oregon and choosing to further my sexual exploration in the context of a committed, monogamous relationship.

This tactic has been wildly successful for me and it just occurred to me that it might be just as successful for you. So, starting in mid-August, I’m running a group coaching circle called 5% Braver that will support you in taking small steps to embracing your sexuality and sensuality and those small steps add up to big change. This group is open to women who are single, partnered, monogamous, poly, open, straight, gay,

bi, trans, however you identify yourself, you belong here. All of the details are at leahcarey.com/five- percent. So what’s your 5% journey? I can’t wait to hear. Again, all of the details are at leahcarey.com/five-percent and that link is in the Show Notes.

The second big announcement is that I’m changing up how this show gets delivered to you. Until now, I’ve been producing it in seasons where episodes were released every week during the season, but then there was an extended hiatus between seasons. I’ve heard from many of you that you missed the show terribly between seasons and have to admit that nothing could make me happier than to know that Good Girls Talk About Sex is as important to you as it is to me. So I want you to know, I heard you. I’ve decided to dispense with seasons and make the show ongoing. In order to accomplish that, because I am just one person y’all.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: I have to switch from doing every week to releasing every other week. But you no longer have to go through extended season breaks. So, you’ll get regular episodes this week and next week, and then I’ll take a short breather, probably about 3 weeks but maybe two, depending on how fast I work to get things lined up for this change. Then, either the last week of August or the first week of September I’ll start up with the new schedule. From then on, you’ll get new episodes every other week without any need for extended season breaks. I’m excited to see how this works for all of us. And as always, please keep in touch with me if you have questions or suggestions about how I could make this show easier for you to consume, I definitely want to hear them. And now, that’s it for announcements. So let’s get on with the show.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Hi, I’m Leah Carey and this is Good Girls Talk About Sex. This is a place to share conversations with all sorts of women about their experience of sexuality. Before we get started, I want to tell you this. These are unfiltered conversations between adult women talking about sex. If anything about the previous sentence offends you, turn back now! And if you’re looking for a trigger waning, you’re not going to get it from me. I believe that you are stronger than the trauma you have experienced. I have faith in your ability to deal with the things that upset you. Sound good? Let’s start the show!

[MUSIC]

LEAH: In today’s episode, we’ll meet Diana, a 37 year old cisgender woman who describes herself as white, heterosexual, married, and monogamous. Diana has two children and had a traumatic birth with her eldest which led to a disconnection from her body and her pleasure. She was able to have a vaginal birth with her younger child which has helped her to reconnect with her body and her sexuality. I’m so pleased to introduce Diana!

You reached out to me when I started posting these and you were like, “I really want to do this.” And I’m curious to know what got you excited about it.

DIANA: I think that talking about sex is one of those things that I wish we did more but there doesn’t seem to be a place to do that. I can’t just go about my normal day talking about sexuality all the time but it’s always been something that I have felt like why don’t we talk about it more? I mean it’s so central to life and it’s literally what brought us to the planet so I just feel like the opportunity to talk about sex is really exciting and fun and I think what you’re doing is really important. I think we need to hear particularly women of all kinds talking about their experience with their sex lives and with their own sexuality so I guess I’m just really excited about what you’re doing and I am excited to be a part of it in some small way if I can.

LEAH: Well, I’m so excited that you’re here. So thank you so much for saying yes and for stepping up to talk about this fun subject.

DIANA: Yeah.

LEAH: It really is fun!

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: It really is. Thank you.

LEAH: Awesome. So let’s dive in. How did you discover the idea of sex?

DIANA: Funny, I don’t ever remember not knowing what it was which sounds maybe kind of strange. I was never exposed to pornography or anything like that at a young age. I kind of just always understood what it was for some reason. And I can remember my mom having this big sex talk with me when I was 13 and it was way too young and I’m like, “Yeah, mom, I know what that is.”

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: So I don’t know if I just sort of absorbed what sex was from the culture that I live in or what it was. But I always knew what it was. I definitely did not always understand what it meant or what a person’s sexuality is, how it affects your life. I can remember having thoughts when I was really, really young where I was like, “Well, a penis and a vagina just doesn’t sound fun to me so I’m just not going to do that.”

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: I just didn’t understand what it actually was.

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: So that changed as I got older.

LEAH: So when did you have your first actual sexual experience?

DIANA: I was probably around 16, maybe 15 or 16, and it was my first boyfriend and it was a really positive wonderful exploratory fun thing. And when I say sexual experience, I mean everything but actual sex kind of happened around that time. I feel really lucky that I was super in love with my boyfriend and he was very invested in my pleasure and very respectful and kind and it was something that I very enthusiastically wanted to do, like very enthusiastic consent.

LEAH: That’s so awesome and it’s not a story that I’ve heard very often in these conversations. And particularly I’ve had conversations with a few people where it sort of goes along the lines of, “Who actually has a decent sexual experience when you’re 16? What teenager actually knows what it is to want their partner to have pleasure?”

DIANA: I know.

LEAH: I just heard you say that your boyfriend was really invested in your pleasure. What does that look

like for a teenager?

DIANA: He would go down on me first of all. [LAUGHTER]

DIANA: And that was my first experience of that sexual act and I was really kind of amazed that I don’t know how amazing it felt and how excited he was about it. And he was like the first person that I even discovered orgasms with. Actually I can remember just making out with him, sitting on his lap kind of facing him with my legs around his body and we were totally fully clothed and something about the way I was like rubbing against him or touching him made me cum. And it shocked him and it shocked me and we didn’t really know what just happened.

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: Our relationship was like that. It was really fun, really sweet, really “Oh, this is new, really wow that’s new, whoa that was cool!”

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: And yeah, you’re right. I do feel I rarely hear that especially from women that their first sexual experience was a really positive one and I feel so lucky that that’s part of my story because I really felt

like it set a foundation for me to have really high expectations from anyone that I dated or had sex with going forward. And yeah, I feel really blessed.

LEAH: That is so cool. Had you discovered masturbation before you had those sexual experiences with him?

DIANA: I was just thinking about this before the call. I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I think I first had an orgasm with him and then kind of figured it out on my own, how to do it on my own.

LEAH: Did masturbation become an important part of your sort of personal sex life as time went on?

DIANA: Yes. I think that masturbation is really important self care. I think it’s a wonderful tool to get to know yourself better and as we get older, we change, our bodies change and it’s really fun to watch that and sort of like oh, that’s different. Now that’s different. You have to sort of know how to do it yourself before anyone else does I guess. That’s how I feel so it’s really important to me, yeah.

LEAH: I’m jumping ahead a little bit but is it still part of your sex life now that you’re in a long term marriage?

DIANA: Oh yeah, definitely.

LEAH: What part does it play in your sex life with your partner?

DIANA: Masturbation is purely my own thing. When I want to relax, show myself some love, have some Diana time, alone with myself, that’s what it is for me.

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: I don’t really do that with my partner because I don’t know, it feels like it’s my own thing. LEAH: And is he supportive of that or is it something that you do outside like does he even know?

DIANA: Oh, for sure. Oh yeah. I guess we both have the mentality that everybody masturbates and it’s a good thing. We’re raising boys now and it’s been really interesting to see the way that they kind of naturally just find their way to it even though they’re still pretty young and they’re not sexual yet. Or I don’t know, maybe they are but yeah, we have a pretty very like “everybody masturbates” idea about it.

LEAH: So how old are your boys?

DIANA: They’re 3 and 6.

LEAH: Oh okay, so they’re still quite young. But you notice them touching themselves or exploring?

DIANA: Yeah. I do notice that and it’s been interesting because I knew that at some point I’d have to have a conversation with them about it but I didn’t think it would be this young and it’s really weird. It’s so sweet too because it’s so innocent because they are just like, “Wow, it’s my penis. Wow, this is interesting. It kind of feels good when I do this.” It’s not like directed at anybody or directed at anything, it’s just an exploratory thing. And so it’s been interesting to have to quickly figure out, “Oh, this is something that I’m going to have to address.” And obviously not shame them, but with one of my sons, I’ve had to say, “This is something that’s private. It’s okay to touch yourself but you can’t do it in front of other people.”

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: I just didn’t expect to have a conversation this quickly. [LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And how did he respond to that?

DIANA: I think he gets it. He’s so little. It’s so hard to know how much of it sinks in but I think he gets it and it sort of honestly, it doesn’t feel very different from any other thing that as a parent, I’m trying to tell him like, “Hey, maybe try to share your toys or whatever it is.” It’s kind of just another thing that I’m hoping he’s absorbing.

LEAH: Share your toys but don’t share your penis.

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: Brilliant. I should put that on a t-shirt. That’s brilliant.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Wow, that’s great. So we talked a little bit about your very first boyfriend as you grew up a little bit, as you moved into your late teens and early 20s, what kinds of experiences were you having?

DIANA: I had a lot of fun in my late teens and college years and early 20s dating and having sex with lots of different men. Like I said before, I can honestly say that all of my experiences were enthusiastically consented to, something that I really wanted and I just feel so lucky for that.

LEAH: So consent has been such a big topic lately in the era of Me Too. As a teenager and a woman in her early 20s, what did enthusiastic consent look like for you?

DIANA: Great question. Part of the answer to your question is that I am somebody who has a large libido and has always really loved sex. And I also have never really felt like there’s anything wrong with that despite having a really conservative Christian upbringing, all of that stuff never really stuck to me and I always felt like if this is something that I love and I’m enthusiastic about, I’m going to do it. I’m going to be safe about it. And that was just my experience. Does that answer your question about consent? I don’t know if I really answered it.

LEAH: Absolutely. It makes me wonder were there times where you were in a situation where you needed or wanted to say no and how did you accomplish that? Because even with somebody who has a high libido still has times when for whatever reason, it’s not the right thing.

DIANA: Yeah. The first thing that comes to my mind is in my long term partnership there have been times like say for example if I just had a baby and not really in a space where I either have the energy for sex, either emotionally or physically or don’t want to be penetrated or just don’t really feel like I could go there. Those are the times that come to mind where I have said no and I think that’s certainly a lot easier to do in a long term partnership because the relationship is different than when you’re dating someone. I’m trying to think. I’m sure I’ve said no to people I wasn’t partnered with but I can’t think of any specific time that I have honestly. I’m sorry.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Sure. That’s fine.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So you mentioned that you grew up in a conservative Christian home, what kinds of messages did you hear about sex growing up?

DIANA: That it was for a man and a woman only. Only within the confines of marriage and anything outside of that bubble was dangerous and sinful. That was it. It was very strict, very conservative. And also there was an unspoken expectation that I would be a virgin until I got married for sure, that was just the expectation. And I can remember thinking as a young person like, “Wow, that sounds like a really bad idea, really bad idea.” For obvious reasons.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So I heard you say that those sort of ideas didn’t stick for you but how did you navigate that while you were still living under your parents’ roof or as you got a little bit older maybe you were still being supported by them and you were out having your own fun.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: How did you navigate that?

DIANA: I think by the time that I had that first boyfriend and I was starting to explore sex, I was pretty good at just like not letting them into that part of my life. I can remember a few times where I was out super, super late and got into really big trouble and they never thought I was having sex. It just kind of wasn’t on their radar for me. Yeah, it’s always been a very separate thing in our relationship that my parents just didn’t ever suspect or know about it and I’ve always been fine keeping it that way.

LEAH: I assume you were not a virgin when you get married. DIANA: No, I was not.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So what about messages about your body separate from sex? One of the things that I’m really interested in diving further into is how our relationship with our body affects our relationship with sex. So what were you hearing or feeling about your body as a young person and how did that affect your early sexual experiences?

DIANA: Oh, that’s such a good question. I always definitely really internalized the idea that my exterior appearance, my being beautiful or attractive to men was really, really important and the way that I saw myself through the male gaze affected me. It affected sometimes even how much I wanted sex which is like kind of shocking to hear me say out loud but it’s true. I feel like it’s almost impossible to escape those types of messages in our culture and it definitely seeped into my skin.

LEAH: So when you were with your first boyfriend, were there concerns about how you looked to him? Did that affect your sexual interaction with him?

DIANA: No. I was so excited to be with him and so in love with him and having so much fun, I genuinely didn’t think about it. I really didn’t. I just wanted to be there.

LEAH: And what about as you got a little bit older?

DIANA: As I’ve gotten older, that shifted a bit for me especially after becoming a mom and becoming a mom changes so much. It changes your body, not just the way your body looks but just the way that it is and the way that it’s seen in the world and the way that you go from maiden to mother, from something that is available to a woman carrying a baby around. That has been a really interesting shift for me.

LEAH: In what way?

DIANA: Every time that I’ve gone through pregnancy and birth, it has felt to me like going through puberty again in a way. Like puberty is this massive shift where everything changes and your body is doing something totally new where you’re like, “Oh, that’s new, whoa, these are different.”

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: And that happens every time I’ve become a mother. Not only the first time but also the second time and so, I’ve had to figure out my new relationship with this new body every single time and I’m not talking about looking different necessarily. I’m talking about actually having a body that works differently and an identity that has shifted a lot each time. Does that answer your question?

LEAH: Yeah. And I’d love to hear more about it. If your body is acting for some period of time primarily as a source of nurturing and even feeding your children, how does that affect how you feel toward your body as a sexual object?

DIANA: It affected me personally very profoundly. I found that especially during the breastfeeding years that it was really, really hard to shift out of that focus of “I’m a nurturing, lactating mother” to “Oh, now I’m hot, I’m sexy, let’s have sex.” It’s really hard mentally for me at least to quickly make that shift and then you add in having a lot less time just to yourself. Sometimes to get out of mom mode, you need a second to yourself to breathe and switch gears but it’s really hard to find that time when you have kids. So, it’s had a huge effect on me, but that’s why I say it’s been a shift every time. So while motherhood really has affected my own sense of my sexual identity and who I am as a sexual being, I’ve found that it just shifts, you just got to find what’s the new version of me that is all of these things, that is a sexual being and also a mother and a nurturer.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: This is a reminder that if you want more Good Girls Talk About Sex, you can find it on Patreon! These week’s rewards are at the 5 dollar a month level, Diana talking about how she now supports other mothers who have been through traumatic birth experiences to heal their relationship with their body. At the 7 dollar a month level, it’s 13 minutes of Q and A. And as always at the 10 dollar a month level, you get me. You got a monthly ask me anything where you can ask your questions about sex, sexuality and sexual communication. Plus for Season 2, 10% of all Patreon donations I receive are going to ARC- Southeast, an organization that provides financial and logistical support to people seeking reproductive health services in Southeastern U.S. states where safe and life saving services are being legislated out of existence. To learn more and become a community supporter, visit patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex. And word of mouth as always is the best advertising, so please go tell a friend about this podcast!

[MUSIC]

LEAH: I assume especially as a mother of boys, your body is probably to some degree a jungle gym for them.

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: Yup, it is, totally.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And how do you reclaim your bodily autonomy during those moments when you’re not in mom mode?

DIANA: That has been challenging for me personally. That requires alone time where no one needs anything from me. I think I tend to be a little more of an introvert int hat way. I have some specific tools like yoga has always been a tool for me to help me get back into my body and breathing and just with myself, that really helps me. But yeah, it just takes alone time. You got to be able to detach a little bit to make that shift.

LEAH: And with your husband, let’s say you are lactating and maybe your breasts are a little bit larger or engorged. I don’t even know if I’m using the proper terminology, I’ve never been a mom.

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: Yeah, you are. [LAUGHTER]

LEAH: But I assume that that is something that a male would look at and be like, “Oh, that’s hot.” And so how do you navigate like, “Okay, these breasts are both trying to feed a child and now you want what from them”?

DIANA: Yeah, I mean I say that in a kind way honestly and it does absolutely feel like when you’re breastfeeding that your breasts belong to that baby. And anyone else trying to touch them is just like way, way, way too much at least for me personally. I’m sure not all women feel that way but that definitely felt that way to me. I just said to my partner, “Hey, this is just kind off limits for me for a while. I’m sure that’s going to change.” I just said, “My breasts don’t feel sexual to me right now, they just feel like they’re feeding my kids.”

LEAH: And how did he respond to that?

DIANA: Well. I think that he would probably not describe himself as a breast man. [LAUGHTER]

DIANA: That’s not his primary focus in general so it worked out okay I guess in the long run. [LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And how long did it take for you to get to a place where you could view your breasts as sexual objects again if maybe you’re even there yet?

DIANA: I’m getting there. My youngest is actually still breastfeeding. He’s three so we’re kind of at that phase where I’d be happy to drop that breastfeeding relationship with him, but he’s really attached so I’m just sort of going with it for now. So I’m not quite there yet but I’m really excited to see what’s going to happen once he’s completely done nursing because I know that’s going to be the time I think where I’m going to get my breasts back.

LEAH: So what about making love, intercourse, more than just the breasts but the whole body experience after having gone through birth?

DIANA: The thing that really surprised me is that I honestly feel like sex got better. Penetrative penis and vagina sex to me now after two kids, feels even better than before I had children. I think there’s this idea that childbirth can I don’t know stretch you out or something weird like that, but that has not been my experience at all. The physical experience of it feels deeper and better and orgasms feel better too. But that’s only the physical part.

I think the other thing that has shifted and I’m still speaking from a place where I’m still being in really, early parenthood still, but it’s hard to have time. We don’t really have as much time as we used to have and we don’t have as much access to spontaneity so we sort of have to a little more prescriptive about it. But I’m sure that will shift and change too.

LEAH: Did you have vaginal births or did you have C-section births?

DIANA: My first baby was a C-section and my second baby was born at home, a vaginal birth.

LEAH: Okay, so were those different for you in terms of being able to resume a sexual relationship after the birth?

DIANA: Yes, definitely. And again, surprisingly, the first time it was way more difficult to me to resume having sex. Having the C-section birth, you would probably think it would be the other way around but it was that birth in particular was a really traumatic birth that left me with PTSD and some pretty severe emotional trauma. And I think that more than the physical experience of the birth, emotionally I left that experience very shattered and very out of my body if that makes sense.

I think anybody who goes through a traumatic and perhaps violating person, you’ll sort of leap out of your body because your body doesn’t feel safe so for a long time after that birth, I just didn’t feel safe in

my body and it was really hard to get back into my body and feel okay again in my own skin which is obviously essential to having connected good sex. And then the second time was interesting because that birth was an incredibly healing beautiful positive experience, but he was born vaginally, so the mechanics of it were a little bit different if that makes sense. But my ability to come back and feel sexual and in my body and back to my normal non-pregnant womanly self happened a lot quicker that time.

LEAH: Fascinating. So you’ve mentioned that yoga is one of the tools that you use for self-care. What are some of the other things that you did after that traumatic birth to eventually bring yourself back into your body?

DIANA: Well, first of all, it took me a really long time to actually acknowledge and realize how traumatized I was and that first year of being a brand new mom, I was really just focused on feeding my child, trying to get sleep, just sort of functioning and then kind of low level depression and PTSD that I had from that birth made it hard to even recognize that there was healing work that had to be done.

I did a lot of journaling. I did a lot of body-based things like for me, I have already mentioned yoga but exercise is also really helpful for me to move energy and get back into my body. And I did some therapy, that was helpful too but it’s hard to find a therapist that understands birth trauma. It’s kind of a unique trauma that a lot of people don’t understand. But to be honest with you, the most healing thing for me personally was that second birth. Getting to a place where I had that second baby and it was such a healing experience, I really feel like my child just gave me that gift. That was the most healing that I could have received.

LEAH: Wow, that’s lovely. Before we started recording, I asked you what your current relationship style, your preferred relationship style is and you said monogamous, sort of.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So I’d love to hear what’s going on in your sex life currently?

DIANA: Well, I am monogamous but the reason that I answered that question in that sort of wishy washy way is because I think that if I were single now, at 37, I would probably be looking at others, I’ll say seeking other types of situations. I think I would be really interested in having open relationships. I know a lot of people who are in them and I see a lot of awesomeness to that. I also think that I would want to date women if I had the chance to do so and that hasn’t always been the case but it’s just like something about growing older. I think if I were single now, I would be wanting to explore all that.

LEAH: Do you see that ever becoming a possibility within the confines of your current relationship or is your relationship really strictly monogamous?

DIANA: I don’t know. I think my partnership is really, really deeply important to me. My relationship with my partner is the most important thing to me in my life and it might be relevant to say that before

he and I were married, I was married briefly and divorced before my current partner and that experience really made me go I don’t ever want to go through that ever again. Like ever, this relationship I’m in, I mean there’s no guarantees in life but I want to be in it forever, I really do. I really love him. He is my best friend. And so this is a long rambling way of saying that anything’s possible but my primary concern is that I would never want to do anything that destabilizes us and that’s something that I think I would have to consider.

LEAH: I think that’s really interesting that the sex advice columnist Dan Savage talks a lot about what is the price of admission you’re willing to pay for your relationship? And so it sounds like there are some things that you are potentially interested in but the price of admission that you are absolutely willing to pay to be in your current relationship and preserve the primacy of it is to not explore those things. And I think that is such a valid choice.

DIANA: Thank you.

LEAH: Yeah, as long as it feels like it isn’t taking anything away from you.

DIANA: Yeah, it definitely doesn’t feel that way to me, no. It feels good.

LEAH: Good. So let’s talk about how sex has developed in your primary relationship or in your current relationship. How was it at the beginning and how has it changed to where it is today?

DIANA: Wow, I mean at the beginning, we had so much sex all of the time.

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: I mean I really feel like that was the glue that brought us together. We actually met on a kink site, which is kind of interesting because I don’t really identify as a kinky person but at the time, I was really interested in just exploring. I was single. I was out of a marriage. I just wanted to see what was out there and that’s how we met. And so the foundation of our relationship has always been a really strong sexual connection and it has shifted.

The biggest shifts happened after children. I think we are in a place right now where there is a time where there was less sex especially when the kids are really young. And we’re in a place right now where we’re starting to come back to it, come back to the foundations of what really brought us together. We’ve been together almost 10 years and he’s still super hot to me. I mean I still check him out.

[LAUGHTER]

DIANA: Nothing about my attraction to him or my desire for him has changed in 10 years, which is really wonderful. It’s just our time. It’s really just our time is totally different now.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Before we finish up, let’s do the Quick Five. Five quick questions we’d usually be too polite to ask any good girl.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: What kind of touch do you enjoy most?

DIANA: Slow touch and I’ve often thought that if I were to give advice to straight men, any advice, “Whatever you’re doing just slow it down a little bit. Whatever it is, it doesn’t even matter.”

LEAH: Are there sexual things you’ve tried that you’ve never want to do again? DIANA: Oh, yes. Cumming on my face, I don’t enjoy.

LEAH: Have you ever had a sexual urge that confused you?

DIANA: Yeah, lots of them I would say. I mean being a little bit interested in having sex with a woman is a little confusing like, “Oh, that’s new.” It’s not something I’ve explored but it’s something that felt a little confusing the first time I felt it, yeah.

LEAH: Have you ever done anything with women? Have you ever made out with a woman or anything? DIANA: No.

LEAH: No? So it’s totally virgin territory for you.

DIANA: Yup.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: How often do you masturbate?

DIANA: Probably once a day.

LEAH: Oh, wow. Have you ever had feelings for two people at the same time? DIANA: Oh, yes. Oh, yeah, for sure.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And how have you handled that?

DIANA: I have dated both of them at the same time. I’ve been a cheater in the past too and both of those things didn’t really feel good to me, didn’t really feel good to date two people openly at the same time with all parties’ knowledge. And it also felt horrible cheating, that’s another thing I’ll never do again.

LEAH: What brought you to the point of saying I want to seek sex and companionship outside of the relationship I’m in?

DIANA: I think that the relationship that I was in wasn’t really great but it also wasn’t terrible. It wasn’t abusive or bad but it also wasn’t great for me. And I definitely felt a little bit trapped and I fully completely own up to how irresponsible and what a cowardly dumb decision it was to get out of the relationship by cheating. But if I’m being completely honest with you, it was a way for me to exit this relationship in a super immature way. I was also pretty young, not that that gives me an excuse, but I was pretty young, and I see now that for what it was. But at the time that’s why I did it really.

LEAH: Well, Diana, thank you so much for taking the time to do this and for really being so open. It’s been a real joy to talk with you.

DIANA: Thanks. I think the work that you’re doing is really important and I feel really honored that you invited me to be a little part of it today. So thank you so much, Leah.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Thanks for joining me today on Good Girls Talk About Sex. If you have questions or comments about anything you’ve heard or if you’d like to be a guest on the show, please email at leah@goodgirlstalkaboutsex.com

I was only able to step outside my good girl box when someone I respected told me it was possible to do it. If you’d like to step outside your good girl box, I’m here to tell you it’s possible. And I can provide you with tools to name your desires and communicate them effectively to your partner or potential partners. If you’re interested in working with me, visit leahcarey.com/coaching. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at IamLeahCarey. You can find these links and any resources we’ve mentioned during the interview in the Show Notes.

I’m Leah Carey and I look forward to talking with you again next week. Here’s to your better sex life! [MUSIC]