Dive Deeper with Leah Carey
I have been through the fire and come out the other side. Now I’m here to walk with you as you do the same.
I will help you take a stand for yourself, your desires, and YOUR PLEASURE.
In this episode of Good Girls Talk About Sex, we talk with Elizabeth, a cisgender white woman in a monogamous heterosexual relationship who is approaching 40.
Elizabeth has an active sex life with her male partner, which includes pegging. While that is something that might be considered relatively common in some circles, for others it is out on the fringes of “normal” sexual activity. Elizabeth opens up about how they got into it, why she loves it, and why it’s scary to admit to when living in a small, conservative town.
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LEAH: Hello friends and Good Girls Talk About Sex listeners. Before we get started today, I wanted to give you a couple of announcements. First, I have just started a YouTube channel and I’m super excited about it. While what you hear on this podcast is me interviewing other women about their stories, on YouTube I share my stories with you. Please join me on YouTube. My channel name is IamLeahCarey. I will put a link in the Show Notes.
Also, we are nearing the end of Season 1. And I want to thank all of you so much for the incredible feedback that you’ve sent. It really has validated everything that I wanted to do with this show. On that note, I am looking for women to interview for Seasons 2 and 3. Something I have heard from some of you, “What’s up with not having as many married women and married moms interviewed on the podcasts?” And I share your frustration with that. The honest answer is that I have invited a whole bunch of married women on to the podcast and haven’t gotten a whole lot of traction there.
I would love if some of you who were sitting there thinking that, if you would consider, coming and being a guest on the show. You can be as anonymous as you want so if you’re interested, please visit my website leahcarey.com/guest. Again, I’ll put that link the Show Notes as well. Leahcarey.com/guest. Fill out the form to let me know that you’re interested and I would love to talk to you. Thank you so much for being here I’m incredibly grateful for everyone of you. Now, here’s the show.
LEAH: In today’s episode, we’ll meet Elizabeth, a cisgender white woman in a monogamous, heterosexual relationship, who is approaching 40. Elizabeth lives in a small, conservative town and she’s concerned that if her neighbors heard her talking about pecking her partner, they would lose respect or even their jobs. That’s part of the reason these interviews are so important. Couples in even the most conservative areas are pushing the boundaries of their sexuality. But because everyone is afraid to talk about it, people like Elizabeth think they’re the only ones. To protect her privacy, we have changed her voice in this episode. I’m so pleased to introduce Elizabeth!
Elizabeth, thank you so much for being here with me today. ELIZABETH: It’s a pleasure to be able to talk to you.
LEAH: Awesome. I know that talking about sex can be a little bit of a challenge so I really appreciate the courage that you’re showing by having this conversation.
ELIZABETH: I think it’s important that everybody talks about what we actually do.
LEAH: Awesome. I agree. So the first question that I like to ask people is what is your first memory of
ELIZABETH: There was a boy at a dance when I was in 7th grade. And I had known him probably for 10 years because we lived in small towns. And I remember thinking that he was cute and I wanted to get to know him better I guess. And I think that was the first anything for me, first flutter of anything.
LEAH: And how did that go forward? Did you try to get to know him in that way better?
ELIZABETH: Yes. In junior high in small towns, every friend will help engineer things and so we were at different dances together. We would dance together and we went to summer camps together. We did music classes together and we were sort of did music camp together.
ELIZABETH: And people would say one time in band camp, yup this one time at music camp.
ELIZABETH: And to be perfectly honest from the time we were 13 until we were in our 20s, we had things going on between the two of us.
LEAH: And so when you had that sort of adolescent little bit of a crush, how did that grow and change as you became a teenager and then into your early 20s?
ELIZABETH: Obviously it starts out with the little, we’re having a conversation with other people and suddenly, we’re holding hands and nobody else has noticed. And then we’re down by the lake and he’s groping me and I’m going, “What the hell is this?”
ELIZABETH: And then we go skiing and then there’s kissing on the chairlift. And it evolved and we had access to an empty cabin quite often. And it’s interesting because we never had a public relationship. We were never together in that way even though that was obviously what I desired, less so for him. And I eventually started doing things with him because I felt like I was practicing for my next partner.
LEAH: Oh, how interesting.
ELIZABETH: I took that view probably when I was 16 or so with him where I was like, “Nope, I’m going to learn how to get good at what I’m doing here so that I’m good at this for my next partner.”
LEAH: And how did that work out for you? Did that feel like it was a good strategy as you got older and started dating other people?
ELIZABETH: Yes. I have had no complaints. [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: So what kinds of things did you get to learn and practice with him that you then took into later relationships?
ELIZABETH: Hand jobs, blow jobs, learning how to kiss and learning how to kiss in a way that wasn’t sloppy and slobbery like a lot of teenagers tend to be. I also am an incredibly prolific reader so I read a lot of romance novels and essentially studied it.
ELIZABETH: And well I had girlfriends who were all reading seventeen and I was reading borderline trash, so I was very educated.
LEAH: I was doing the same thing. I totally skipped over that whole how to have a crush on somebody piece and went straight to the how to have sex. I wasn’t actually doing it. I was a very late bloomer in terms of actually doing it but in terms of my reading and my learning, I went straight to the actual having of the sex.
ELIZABETH: Yeah, so this particular gentleman was about with for long, we never actually had sex. So we did a whole lot of other things but we never had sex.
LEAH: I imagine over that many years, it must have been a conscious decision for you.
ELIZABETH: For me, it was. I grew up fairly conservative and I had the belief that I was only going to have sex to the person I was married to. And I knew he was not going to be the person I married, and like I said, I just decided to use him as practice.
And there definitely was sexual attraction between the two of us. And there has been since then. We’re talking, oh gosh, at this point, 25 years or more. Yeah, about 25 years of attraction, mutual attraction and even into our early 30s, we would run into each other and he would initiate that he wanted to hook up. And it seemed to happen, I had a boyfriend pretty much every time and I’m pretty strict about breaking those boundaries. When I’m committed to someone, I’m committed to someone. And it was
only in the last probably year or so that I saw him and for the first time in a really long time didn’t have that sexual leaning toward him.
LEAH: Wow, what do you think has changed?
ELIZABETH: We are at drastically different points in our lives. I have a Master’s degree and a career and I don’t think he ever finished his Bachelor’s degree and he’s sort of bouncing around town not on any particular career path at the moment. And I’m not saying that’s a good thing or a bad thing, for me, I just need someone whose vocabulary rivals mine and his doesn’t anymore.
LEAH: Ahh, interesting. Yeah, I think that for a long time, I had this very egalitarian view that I wanted to be okay with absolutely anybody no matter their education, no matter what their class, no matter what their anything and while that is still true, I would like to think that I am that evolved, the truth is it is really important for me to be with somebody who is intelligent. That doesn’t necessarily mean educated. But it’s really important to me be with somebody who expresses themselves well and at some point I had to sort of get over my own internal drama and ego about I want to be totally evolved and be okay with anybody.
LEAH: Because it’s really not true.
ELIZABETH: And that’s exactly. I am divorced and my ex-husband was not an educated person. He also grew up in another part of the world where education was not a priority. And I never judged him for that. At the same time, there were significant differences in logic and reasoning and at some point, despite how decent he was in bed.
ELIZABETH: There were also things because of the place he had grown up, there were things that he refused to do in bed and I wanted to.
LEAH: Oh, that’s interesting can you tell us more about that?
ELIZABETH: Sure. So I am not afraid of anal sex and I’ve done it a couple of times with a couple of partners. It’s not something I can do all the time with anybody. It has to be the right setting, situation kind of thing. And we were married and I said that that was something that I liked and he told me he wasn’t gay.
LEAH: Oh wow.
ELIZABETH: And I said, “I’m aware. We’re married.”
ELIZABETH: “We have the sex and it’s good. But I would like this.” And he flat out refused and when I then suggested that I would be okay with a small egg vibrator there. He told me that it’s something wives don’t do. You do that with your girlfriend or your mistress but not your wife.
LEAH: Wow, so really different cultural backgrounds. EIZABETH: Very.
LEAH: And how did that feel to you when you heard that?
ELIZABETH: I felt very judged. And thankfully I’ve been around enough fairly open minded women that I didn’t cower. And I can honestly say we were very compatible in bed. It was good. But there were times when he was tired or whatever and it was just pretty quick and done and I wasn’t finished. So I would grab a toy and finish myself. And he was always displeased with that.
LEAH: Were you able to have conversations about that? Were you ever able to say to him, “This isn’t a reflection on you. This is what I need for myself” or was it just not talked about?
ELIZABETH: I tried to have those conversations and again, I was told wives don’t do that.
LEAH: And was this something you ever talked about with your girlfriends or with other people in your life? Was this something you had felt like you had to keep yourself or were you able to talk with others about it?
ELIZABETH: I have one female friend who I can talk about it very openly with and express that. And her perspective was probably very similar to yours which would have been, you do what you need to do.
ELIZABETH: And essentially I did. There was a little part of me that kind of took the attitude of, and I would say to him, “I’m not saying that what we just did is bad, I’m saying that when we’re done, I shouldn’t have enough energy left to go clean the house.”
LEAH: That sounds fair. [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: So you said that you’re divorced. How did your sexual satisfaction play into the success of your marriage?
ELIZABETH: I don’t think that really had any bearing on the success or failure of our marriage. Even up until the very last night that he lived in my house, we had sex. That was good. That was not a problem. We had other emotional issues.
LEAH: Was sex a way you were able to maintain the connection with him despite the other emotional issues?
ELIZABETH: To some extent, yes. And I can probably say in the last month or so that we were in the same house, he had already indicated that was going to be leaving. So we were cordial to each other in the house. It wasn’t either of us giving the other a cold shoulder or anything. But it wasn’t as affectionate as it had been and so a lot of times it sort of felt like we’re in the same bed, we’re both human, we’re both attracted to each other. Let’s do this.
LEAH: I’ve never been married, so I’ve never been divorced. [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: But I wonder if that’s an experience that a lot of women or a lot of couples have. Okay, so we’re not doing the marriage thing so well anymore but there’s still this animal, sort of biological need.
ELIZABETH: Yeah, I don’t know. I think I’ve heard from a number of my other friends that people stop having the sex first and then get divorced second. But we sort of did it that way?
LEAH: Well, whatever works for you. [LAUGHTER]
ELIZABETH: In all honesty, having been married as I said I’m sort of having a conservative background, I wanted my first partner to be my husband that did not happen. But after having been married and essentially the whole world now knows I’m not a virgin because I’ve been married.
ELIZABETH: So not that I no longer care, but I don’t really care so much about propriety anymore and I have a partner now who I fully intend on never marrying.
LEAH: Oh, interesting.
ELIZABETH: Yup. And he and I are totally on the same page on this. We each have a child. We are raising our children completely independently. Our children have never met. We don’t intend for them to meet.
LEAH: Have you each met each other’s child?
ELIZABETH: He’s met mine. I have not yet met his. Only because there’s enough of an age difference
that she pretty much, his child, lives a pretty much independent life. His child isn’t seven.
LEAH: So let’s talk about your current relationship. What is sex like for you post divorce, post caring about the propriety about what everybody else thinks, what is your sex life like now?
ELIZABETH: Oh God, it’s amazing. LEAH: Yay!
ELIZABETH: And it’s amazing in new and incredible and fun ways that first of all, I couldn’t possibly have imagined even with all the reading that I had done as a teenager. But I can also say that my current partner is a very unique specimen to me. We met a while ago and the first time I was within ten feet of him, there was a wall of sexual energy that flew at me.
ELIZABETH: And I cannot describe it any other way than that other than simply saying it was just being ten feet, wave after wave of sexual energy was coming off of him, like rolling at me. And I just chalked it up to that’s who he was. And that every single woman on the planet felt that exact same thing because he was beautifully intense and shook my hand and then kissed my hand when I met him. And I just was like okay if this who you are, if this is how every woman reacts to you, and I have got to rein it in because I’m not going to become a puddle at your feet. And that was our very first encounter.
And so a couple of years later, I’m married, I‘m divorced and we connected again and he came up to visit me for a weekend and I was terrified that I wasn’t going to feel that again. There was sheer and utter terror that despite the conversations that we’ve had and the conversations on the phone. We’ve had some great talks on the phone and I pretty much fallen in love before he set foot in my house. His level of intelligence is quick wit and his ability to spar and to parry mentally with me is something that I didn’t get to experience much in a flirtatious way. And so that sort of started that relationship.
LEAH: Just to interrupt for a second. You had said that you were sure that every other woman felt that way in response to him, what have you learned about that?
ELIZABETH: He saw me and also felt something very quickly. For the first week he came up, he got out of the car, and it just hit me again. Again that same feeling of I want this and we’d exchange enough and I’m also a writer so I’ve written some little sexual vignettes to him. And so it sort of now and then I’d email him just a paragraph or two of what could happen.
LEAH: And this is before you re-met each other?
LEAH: In person. Wow. Very bold. I love it.
ELIZABETH: Yeah. He encourages the boldness in me. We could just say that. LEAH: Awesome. Okay.
ELIZABETH: So literally the first night we were together, I had made dinner. He was ready and waiting and we had a couple of cocktails and some wine and the next thing I know I’m sitting on my kitchen counter and he’s kissing me and it’s lovely and amazing. And then I’m shirtless.
ELIZABETH: And I’m sort of wondering about this before like I’m a plus size girl and I was sitting there saying, “Don’t take my shirt off. You don’t want to see all this”. And he just continued to make me feel beautiful. And yeah, so there was that and then the next thing I know my bra is off.
ELIZABETH: And I already wasn’t wearing underwear and then his face was between my legs. [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: Awesome. Going for the good stuff.
ELIZABETH: There’s no bedroom in sight and all of a sudden I feel like this is lovely.
LEAH: So was it good right from the beginning or did you have to sort of find your rhythm together?
ELIZABETH: It was good right from the beginning. And I can also say I am incredibly self conscious about having someone’s face between my legs. And part of it is because I am plus size and I don’t want to suffocate him.
Also my ex-husband refused to do that. Even though we were close enough, we were intimate enough that I finally said to someone, “I’m okay if you do this.” And a few other partners had done it but I was never really comfortable. I was never really able to let go. And I was finally comfortable enough with my ex-husband, I was like, “Hey do you want to do this?” He’s like, “No, no. I don’t do that.” And I went, “Hey, wait. How did I not know that before we got married?”
ELIZABETH: But it’s something that my current partner not only is proficient at but also adores doing.
LEAH: And how is that for you? Like you say, you’ve sort of overcome it but is that an “Okay I’ll let you if you want to” or an “Oh, hell yes please”?
ELIZABETH: When he comes to stay the night, I’m like, “You do this first.”
ELIZABETH: There’s like, “Okay, this is happening first and then we’ll talk about what we’re going to do.”
LEAH: Yeah, I’m dating a really great guy right now and there’s a certain sex position from behind, doggy style, that I have never wanted to do for a variety of both physical and emotional reasons and now it’s like, “Oh my God. That’s what I want to do all the time.”
ELIZABETH: It’s a regular thing that he comes in and I have a glass of wine and he has a cocktail and then my skirt’s off and we’re on the couch.
LEAH: So when you started talking about him, I don’t remember exactly the words you used but you said something about that this has opened up some things that you haven’t explored before. So can you talk more about that?
ELIZABETH: Sure. We’d had a conversation early on, maybe one of the first or second times that we’ve been physically in each other’s presence, and he asked me about anal sex and how I felt about that. I was like, “I’m perfectly okay with it.”
I have to be in the right frame of mind and I physically have to feel a certain way to be open to it. And it does have to do something with not being in a super stressed out point in my life and literally be able to relax kind of thing. And so we were having that conversation. From the very beginning, we’ve been incredibly, incredibly open about sex, about what we like, what we don’t like, boundaries that we have.
And I can remember him saying something about, “Would you play with my ass some time? Would that bother you?” And my response was, ”It’s something that I like. Why shouldn’t you like it?” And I know that I’m sure that he has been with people in the past, partners in the past, that have probably shied away from it because that’s not normal I guess. I don’t know.
I find it fascinating that there is one part of our bodies that is so similar and we each get pleasure from in a similar way versus the way normal sex works. I know so many girls that are like hey I wish I had a penis so I know how it would feel.
ELIZABETH: You both have this part so you can play with it. And so we explore a little bit and it’s something that he sort of introduced me to more. So he would recommend a certain brand of lube that he preferred or worked the best and it also helped that there is the most amazing website on the planet called Literotica. And I read a lot of that stuff because it’s delightful and I’m fussy about what I read and I ended up reading something somewhere. He and I had been together probably 6 months to a year, and I read something about a Feeldoe which is essentially a strapless strap on penis.
LEAH: How is it spelled?
ELIZABETH: FEELDOE. Feeldoe. And there’s a bulb that is inserted into the woman and it juts out just like a lovely proud cock. And so I had read this story about it and being turned on, and it was a great story because it was essentially talking about a man’s first time with it and this wife who was, “All right we’ll try this.” So it was a little bit of an introductory and I remember having a conversation with him about it. “You like your ass played with. How far do we go with this?”
LEAH: So you’re the one who brought that up?
ELIZABETH: Well, I mentioned the Feeldoe and he said, “Yeah, sure. Get one. That sounds good.” I’m like, “Oh, okay.” And so I guess I can say he sort of led me down the path and it was a path that he’s been down on before so this wasn’t totally unfamiliar to him and so that’s what we sort of started playing with.
And then at one point, he said, “Are you open to trying something else?” And I said, “What do you mean trying something else?” And he introduced me to the world of an actual strap on with a harness and something else physically attached to the front of me and I was like, “Okay this is new and different.”
And to be completely and totally honest, the first couple of times doing that or even trying that, it was a 100% to humor him. It was a 100% just to be like this is what you want. I will do this and you seem to enjoy this so I will continue to do this. And then it changed.
LEAH: Do you know what the change was? Was it just prolonged exposure to it or was there an actual experience that caused you to feel differently?
ELIZABETH: I can tell you the morning that it changed. And we both know the moment that it changed. And I don’t think that he would ever recognize that I was humoring him to begin with. I think that he knew that I was working on it, I was getting there, and most of it was just unfamiliarity with what we were doing. And I will be completely honest at this point we have a collection of cocks that I don’t know we got a dozen or more now. And some are little and some are bigger and some are gargantuan.
ELIZABETH: So mostly for effect and it’s funny because we have nicknames for them like they are a part of our sex life now. And there’s one that we have that is modeled after a porn star. I can’t remember his last name but the first name is Dirk and so we’ll regularly talk about it. And I’ll be like, “Hey, what are you in the mood for right now?” And he’s like, “I don’t know. How about you start with little Blue and then move up to Dirk?”
LEAH: That’s awesome. [LAUGHTER]
ELIZABETH: And so that’s just what it is now. But there definitely was a morning that we probably been playing with the strap-ons for 6 months maybe. And there was just this one morning where something clicked for me and I realized that this is going to sound really odd and I think it makes sense and I realized the powerful position that I was in.
ELIZABETH: Standing there and wearing a harness and wielding my lovely cock.
ELIZABETH: And I was really turned on by it to the point that I was distracted by how turned I was. And he could tell because I was doing what I was doing, I’d sort of slide in and then I’d be like, “Hang on, I need to take a second. I need a breath here because I’m driving myself crazy with this.”
ELIZABETH: Yeah, it’s a strange feeling to be so turned on while that’s the only connection to my
partner. So yeah, it was kind of crazy.
LEAH: I have a friend. We’ve been talking about her harness and her dicks.
LEAH: And she’s like for the first time in my life, I finally understand why people take dick pics. I just want to take pictures of this thing even though it’s not actually my flesh.
ELIZABETH: And it’s so funny because I do that and I’ll send them to him and he loves it. I’ll pull up the hem of my skirt and I’ll have one on and I’ll send it. I’ll just strap up and go for a drive and then I’ll sort of pull my skirt up and holding it and sending that. And he loves it. I like it. I put it on and I get turned on.
LEAH: So you wear it not only during sex time with your partner? You wear it other times too? ELIZABETH: I do.
LEAH: Let’s just ask the question that people are going to ask. So Elizabeth, do you feel like you wish you were a man?
ELIZABETH: Not at all. [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: Okay. Can you talk about that a little bit more? This is not a cross-dressing thing. It’s not a transgender thing. What is it?
ELIZABETH: I am 100% female. I am 100% attracted to men and it’s the point that I use to access another erogenous zone on him. And the same as my hands and my mouth are attached to my body and I can use those and think of what I can do with those to him. When I’m strapped up and I’m wearing that, I’m thinking about what I can do to him with it.
LEAH: So it’s still very much in relation to him even if he’s not in the room with you? ELIZABETH: Correct.
LEAH: Oh that’s interesting.
ELIZABETH: And there is a sense, once you’ve had that experience, I honestly don’t think that I could have just put it on and felt like that. I think it’s having that experience with him but once I’ve had that experience, once that switch flipped for me, and I was getting so turned on by being strapped up and in some cases behind him, that sort of moment that I keep the harness hanging on the peg in my closet and there are evening I’m just going to play around with this. It’s not at all about wanting to be a man. There is no part of that that I want.
LEAH: Yeah. So I’m curious. I’ve never worn a harness so this is a physical experience I haven’t had. I understand that you get turned on by the experience of wearing it, but is there an actual physical sexual component for you? Is it in some way stimulating your clit? Do you know what I’m asking?
ELIZABETH: I do. And so there are some that I have. I do have a Feeldoe. And that is inserted in and there is a little tiny itty bit vibrator that I can turn on and vibrate on my clit. It does so little that the answer is no, so for the most part, no. There’s no physical anything on me in those moments so I mentioned that my ex-husband was anti-toy. My current partner is pro-toy.
LEAH: Yay for pro-toys. [LAUGHTER]
ELIZABETH: We have a lot of toys. So there are some things that I will do on occasion to stimulate one or both of us in certain moments. So there’s a wand that we have that I can position so that it’s on my clit and helping to vibrate in him and that’s quite pleasant.
ELIZABETH: I have the unfortunate situation of I get so turned on and so far gone that I get distracted and so I have to spend a lot of time focusing on my partner or else it all just goes to pieces and I’m there with the wand and he’s tough luck.
ELIZABETH: I’ll be with you and I’m with you.
ELIZABETH: And so there’s that. But for the most part, it’s not physical. I mean every now and then if I’m behind him and I could sort of be over him enough that my nipples are on his back and that stuff I get turned on. But in general, being strapped up it’s not that there is something on me or in me. There are devices that like that we just don’t have any yet.
LEAH: Yet, I like that, yet. [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: Well, thank you for talking about that so openly. I really appreciate it. I know that’s not the easiest thing because people don’t talk about this stuff even though lots of people are doing it. People don’t talk about them.
ELIZABETH: Yeah. It’s one of those things that it is so completely taboo because the moment a man says he likes something inserted in him in that way, it’s oh you’re gay. And the answer is that my partner is anything but gay.
ELIZABETH: He is a 100% male. And for me there is an extra bit of power that comes with knowing I’m strapped up and my cock, my dick, is inside him and I can put my mouth on his or put my hands on his, and the orgasm he has in those moments is one only I can give him that way. It’s not as simple as just normal sex between two partners. There’s such an additional level of intimacy in knowing how far, how fast, even which one to use in which moment. So it’s that.
LEAH: So if you were to break it down, how often is he penetrating you and how often are you penetrating him and how often are you doing other things entirely?
ELIZABETH: Let me think about this. I would say that if you count his tongue, penetration is definitely equal.
ELIZABETH: But it depends. I think that sometimes my sessions with him, sometimes maybe lasts longer than when he’s actually penetrating me. But we do different things as well. So I’m trying to think. How do I phrase this?
Sometimes, we have a couple of cocks that he’ll use on me so it’s not necessarily him penetrating me but it’s the dildo and so sometimes there’s that. Sometimes I’ll have something bigger and he’ll be behind me so it’ll be him in me anally while I have something else in me vaginally which is just an incredible experience all together.
ELIZABETH: Or it will be like I have again a vibrating egg in me anally and he will be penetrating me normally. So yeah, we’re pretty adventurous. That’s for sure. And the reason that sometimes sort of my sessions with him are longer. I also like to tie him up and that was something that I’ve been fascinated by for a very long time and he is the first partner that I’ve had that when I say something about being tied up, the immediate response isn’t that they will tie me up.
LEAH: Oh interesting.
ELIZABETH: And part of it is because we’re open as we are and I was like, “Look, I want to tie you up.” I don’t need to be tied up. I’m good. If that was something that he really wanted to do, I would be okay with it but at the same time, I’m like, “I’ve been tied up and it doesn’t do anything for me so far.” I haven’t found the right partner to tie me up I guess.
ELIZABETH: So I will tie him and restrain him and I study different techniques and different knots and the same as everything else he and I do together, we don’t have a safe word because it’s not about domination and it’s not about punishment and it’s not about pain. None of what we do about any of those things and it’s 100% all about pleasure and if one of us in any situation says “Wow” or “Stop” or “Don’t”, the other one fully respects that. And so when I tie him up and at some point a leg goes numb, it’s like, “Hey, can you fix this?”
LEAH: So I’m going to change the subject for a moment. Because the two of you don’t live together, I assume there must be some amount of sex at a distance that happens whether that is sexting or phone sex or masturbation. Can you talk about how the two of you navigate that part of your relationship?
ELIZABETH: Sure. Sometimes it’s something as simple as me sending him a text saying, “I’m sitting in my office and my nipples are hard and I’m soaking wet.” And he’ll respond with, “Yup, hard as a rock, at work too. It sucks.”
ELIZABETH: We don’t send a lot of pictures of each other back and forth. We send very rare, the occasional picture but both of us are hyper aware of all of the things on the Internet that can be found and seen and that would be bad for both of us no matter what we do. So what we tend to do more of find pictures on Reddit or Tumblr of examples of what either we would like to do with each other, what we would like to have done, examples there might be like a comic or something like that. And so sometimes in a course of a day, we will send 30-50 pictures back and forth like that.
LEAH: Oh wow. That’s a lot. [LAUGHTER]
ELIZABETH: And again, I still will write the occasional story or vignette sort of describing either something we’ve done or something that I want to do. And so that’s a way that we communicate our desires very easily is through imagery and so hell send a picture and every now and again if a part of the picture applies but not the whole picture, we’ll put a caveat in there of, “Hey I want to do this but I don’t need the other girl in the picture.”
LEAH: That’s awesome. So these little vignettes that you write occasionally, do you ever submit them to Literotica for other people to read?
ELIZABETH: I have.
LEAH: Can I ask you what name you publish under? [LAUGHTER]
ELIZABETH: I’m not sure I’m ready to give that out yet. LEAH: Okay. That’s fair. Absolutely fair.
ELIZABETH: I keep that one very close to the chest. First, I was hesitant and with his encouragement, I posted a couple of things and at the beginning, I was a little neurotic in checking to see how many hits, how many reads, how many clicks and I think once one story past 20,000, I stopped checking.
LEAH: Whoa, oh my goodness. Wow.
ELIZABETH: And I haven’t posted anything in a little while, just life has been busy but I’ve definitely got
something in the works. It’s going to be out there soon. LEAH: Nice.
LEAH: So you’ve mentioned Literotica, you’ve mentioned the Feeldoe are there any other things that you would want to recommend to other woman about sex and sexuality whether it’s books, TV shows, websites, toys, sort of the field is yours.
ELIZABETH: Forget who even makes it now. But yes, so about a year and a half ago or so, maybe it’s been two years, but it’s definitely been a year and a half ago, Amazon developed an entire sexual health and wellness section. It’s very hard to get to on a mobile device. It’s much easier to access on an actual computer. And once you are in that section of Amazon, the toy world is your oyster.
LEAH: And I think you actually have to proactively click some links. It doesn’t just take you there. It shields you from there ea little bit.
ELIZABETH: Yeah. Exactly. You have to search and find and eventually you will get into that section of Amazon.
ELIZABETH: And it’s amazing. My partner and I, we sort of have the attitude of “Let’s try it.”
ELIZABETH: And there are some things that we say “Let’s try it” and we order it and it sits in the box for six months.
ELIZABETH: And we try it and we go ,”What the hell were we thinking? It was in the box for six months.” [LAUGHTER]
ELIZABETH: There’s one toy and again I don’t remember the brand at this point but every now and again, I’ll spend some money and I can honestly say that it’s not cheap to do what we do. I think I have three or four harnesses at this point and like I said earlier, probably an upwards of dozen things that can attach to those. We’ve purchased different sized rings that help hold them in place. And different kinds of lube because when you’re doing the things we do, it’s 100% necessary.
LEAH: Yes. Do you have a favorite brand of lube?
ELIZABETH: I think it’s the Shibari because it’s water based but it’s slippery enough but it’s just right. I guess I can say. Both my partner and I like the aesthetics of things so we like things to be pretty.
ELIZABETH: It’s not just a bunch of straps and cables. It’s cute. [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: I like that.
ELIZABETH: So again, I think my biggest recommendation and I think it’s also Shibari makes a wand that they sell on Amazon and it’s like 30 dollars and has like 12, 18 speeds, I can’t even tell anymore but it has a propriety charger which is why I own four of them now.
ELIZABETH: Let me tell you a story about how powerful this particular wand is. A friend of mine was in a relationship with a man and he just wasn’t fantastic sexually. It wasn’t terrible. It was okay. It was good. He had some dysfunction issues and it just wasn’t consistently great for her. Not necessarily related to that but they were just sort of milking the relationship for all of what it’s worth and sort of limping along. And we are close enough that I could do this. I sent her one of these wands and she broke up with him about four days later.
LEAH: That’s awesome. I love it. [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: I absolutely think that women should share sex toys. For my birthday last month, I had my birthday party was a bunch of women and we’re all bisexual so there was play going on at the party. It
was a sex party but we all brought our favorite toys so everybody could try everybody else’s toys to see what they might like and want to buy.
ELIZABETH: That’s awesome. The magic wand is totally magic. And it’s one of those things that different wands at different times for different things. So I have again, I can’t tell you how many, I have several. And there are some that it’s not unusual for on a Sunday afternoon, my partner will have been sending me pictures and I will just be working myself into a state and I will grab a wand and lay on my bed and I will do an audio track for him. And send him an audio track. And sometimes that audio track involves that I want to do to him so you talked about how we communicate. It’s on a lot of different levels.
LEAH: Yeah. I want to ask you because we had a conversation before the recording when we were setting this interview up where you expressed some unease, and we are changing your voice, some discomfort about the idea of being in public and talking about pegging about using a strap on a man and I’d just like to talk for a moment about what that is. What is that discomfort and why do you think that it exists?
ELIZABETH: So I mentioned that I live in a small town and it is a fairly conservative area. So in fact, I was at Church last weekend and someone said something to me about, “Gosh, I see your name on the paper all the time. You’re always doing XYZ.” I prefer to keep my name in the paper for my volunteer work.
ELIZABETH: And not my sexual preferences. So and it’s two fold. It’s not just to protect myself but it’s also to protect my partner who also lives in a ridiculously conservative area of this country. And so it’s this sort of thing that if this was publicly him and less so for me because of other choices I’ve made, but especially for him, this information could compromise his livelihood. And I don’t mean he’s a Republican politician.
ELIZABETH: It’s the sort of thing that wouldn’t be well received by people he has business dealings with. Like I said, I think I could get away with it a little more easily.
LEAH: Yeah, I mean I don’t think that anybody particularly has a right to know what’s going on in anyone else’s bedroom unless we specifically choose to talk about it with them and with that said, I hope that this podcast and others in this world will open up these conversations so that they’re not so shameful so that people don’t have to worry about things like their livelihood for what they do in the bedroom so it’s
nobody else’s business how you take your pleasure as long as you’re not hurting anybody else in the process.
ELIZABETH: Exactly and obviously there’s been a lot that’s been going on politically to open things up in different Supreme Court courses that have happened to make things easier for some groups of people. I think this is again, specifically pegging is still one of those super taboo things because I feel like coming out of the closet and saying that you’re gay is easier than telling someone when you’re a male that you like women and you want a woman to do that to you.
So that’s a hard thing and it’s really interesting. I’ve been to a number of I’ll say mixed gender sex toy parties and sometimes a toy is given away sort of thing and I have seen a couple receive a pegging starter kit and the look on his face is always sheer and utter terror that he’s going to have to bring this home and people are going to know that his house, let alone whether or not they’re going to use it, but just that somebody knows that they took it home is so terrifying that it’s beyond belief and again me being who I am in the community that I’m in, I can’t really go look at them and take them aside and say, “Really, it’s super fun. You should try it.”
LEAH: Okay so everybody in podcast world here is the deal. It’s super fun. You should try it. [LAUGHTER]
ELIZABETH: My ex-husband was so, so terrified of anything like that that if we were cooking dinner together and I smacked him on his ass, he would turn and look at me and say, “Don’t do that to me. I’m not gay.”
LEAH: Oh wow. Different world from the world you’re living in right now.
ELIZABETH: It’s so great. Oh my God. My current partner can be cooking breakfast for me and I come
into the kitchen and be strapped up and say, “Bend over the kitchen table” and he will. LEAH: Oh my goodness. Wow.
LEAH: So I want to ask you a series of quick Q and A questions. All right? Get ready. [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: Favorite sex position?
ELIZABETH: Oh. Strapped up behind him with my hands on his hips pulling him into me. LEAH: Nice. I can hardly imagine favorite sex toy?
ELIZABETH: Oh my God, no. Okay.
LEAH: How do you choose?
ELIZABETH: Okay I can choose. All right I’m going to give you a favorite non battery operated are my ropes. That’s easy.
LEAH: Okay. Cool.
ELIZABETH: As far as favorite battery operated, we have one that it’s sort of an egg with a tail and it has a wireless remote that I can wear on my finger like a ring and so I like to insert that into him and just sit and watch a movie and play with it.
LEAH: Sex during your period? ELIZABETH: Yeah.
LEAH: Hair down there or bare?
ELIZABETH: Oh, bare and for both of us.
LEAH: And how do you maintain that? Do you wax, shave, electrolysis?
ELIZABETH: At the moment I’m still shaving but I swear to God the next time I have a significant amount of money, I’m just going to get it all taken care off down there. I’m so done with it.
LEAH: How often do you have sex?
ELIZABETH: With a partner? [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: Good question! [LAUGHTER]
LEAH: With a partner and without a partner.
ELIZABETH: Without, every other day. With, it depends on our schedules and this is one of those really complicated things where sometimes it’s three months and it kills me and then sometimes it’s four weeks.
LEAH: Your go to masturbation fantasy?
ELIZABETH: It’s so varied. I really don’t have one. Honestly, there’s so many and sometimes I grab a video from Tumblr or from Reddit kind of thing and sometimes it’s a Literotica story, sometimes it’s pegging sometimes it’s not. It’s so varied.
LEAH: Okay. Swallow or not?
ELIZABETH: Swallow if the moment’s right. But I’m a big fan of seeing it squirt everywhere.
ELIZABETH: That’s really what I love to watch. That’s the best moment for me is to feel him about to go and then just watch it.
LEAH: Alright. How much noise do you make during sex?
ELIZABETH: Too much.
ELIZABETH: I can’t have neighbors.
LEAH: Do you prefer to have orgasms from penetration or clit stimulation?
ELIZABETH: Both. I don’t have a preference and sometimes it’s having stimulation in three places. LEAH: Oh yeah, I didn’t include that.
ELIZABETH: I don’t want to say that there is a favorite but that’s one of my favorites, three places. LEAH: All right. And do you like to have your G-spot stimulated?
LEAH: Okay. Great
LEAH: So we did it. That’s it.
ELIZABETH: There we go.
LEAH: How are you feeling?
ELIZABETH: I’m good. Just what I needed, a lot of blushing.
LEAH: Awesome. Well you didn’t sound like you were blushing. You sounded straight up. It was awesome.
LEAH: Elizabeth, thank you so much for talking with me today. I really appreciate not just your time but how wiling you’ve been to be just wide open and vulnerable and honest. It’s been a real pleasure to talk with you.
ELIZABETH: I’m happy to enlighten the rest of the world as to how much fun sex is. LEAH: Yay! Because good girls do talk about sex.
ELIZABETH: Of course they do.
LEAH: Well thank you again and have a great day. ELIZABETH: Thank you.
LEAH: Thanks for joining me today on Good Girls Talk About Sex. If you have questions or comments about something you’ve heard, or if you’d like to record a voice memo for use in a future episode, send them to email@example.com. Also, let me know if you’d like to be a guest on a future episode. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at IamLeahCarey. Links to any people and resources mentioned in this episode are in the Show Notes. I’m Leah Carey and I look forward to talking with you again next week.
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