I sucked his tongue like a lollipop – Liz

While Liz's teen friends were gossiping about hookups, she explored her sexuality at her own pace. As an adult woman she has sex occasionally as she waits to find love.
Good Girls Talk About Sex
I sucked his tongue like a lollipop - Liz
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When it came to exploring her sexuality, Liz took her time – while all her friends were gossiping about their boyfriends and hookups as teenagers, Liz knew she wasn’t ready to lose control. As a single woman, she now has sex occasionally while she waits to find love.

Today we revisit the very first episode of Good Girls Talk About Sex from January 2019. Liz is a 37-year-old, cisgender white woman who is single, heterosexual, and monogamous.

In this episode we talk about

  • Her mom’s unforgettable description of giving birth
  • Her first Spin The Bottle kiss, gone very wrong
  • Using condoms during oral sex
  • Playing with remote control vibrators in public
  • What it means to feel sexy

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  • April 23 RESCHEDULED May 14– I’ve never talked to my partner about sex: Starting the conversation
  • May 28 – We’re all from the same planet: Mars & Venus are bullshit
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Resources

Fall in love with your sex life in 2023 – register for “Tune In To Your Turn Ons”: www.leahcarey.com/classes 

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Full episode text

LEAH: Hi. I’m Leah Carey and this is Good Girls Talk About Sex. This is a place to share conversations with all sorts of women about their experience of sexuality. Before we get started, I want to tell you this. These are unfiltered conversations between adult women talking about sex. If anything about the previous sentence offends you, turn back now! And if you’re looking for a trigger warning, you’re not going to get it from me. I believe that you are stronger than the trauma you have experienced. I have faith in your ability to deal with the things that upset you. Sound good? Let’s start the show!

For today’s episode, we’re taking it back all the way back to the beginning, the very first episode. It’s been fun to go back and re-listen to this conversation featuring Liz, I’m struck by how unsure I sound. You may or may not hear it in my tone of voice, but I can hear it in the way that I ask the questions.

I remember thinking during those early interviews, I keep bringing the conversation back to sex. Am I being too single minded? Is this going to get boring? Are people going to think that I’m a pervert? Over the last four years, those fears have pretty much gone away. I’ve received enough feedback from all of you letting me know that you appreciate the single-minded focus and you’ve been yearning for these conversations.

So my friends, if I am a pervert, we all are and so be it. I’m okay with it. Perhaps I shall lead the pervert parade. Speaking of the pervert parade, let’s talk about this month’s class coming up on Sunday, April 23rd. If you think that your partner should magically know what you want in bed without you having to say anything or give any directions, I wanna ask you a question.

How’s that working for you? Are you completely satisfied with the sex you get, and are you confident that you are giving your partner exactly what they want in return? I get it. The idea of talking about sex can be awkward and downright terrifying, but I promise it doesn’t have to be that. And once you start the conversation, you no longer have to suffer in silence through sex that isn’t really what you want or wonder what your partner is actually thinking.

Join me for the April entry in the Fall In Love With Your Sex Life In 2023 class, Talking About Sex With Your Partner. This class will change the way you think about talking to your partner about sex, and it’ll give you specific skills and language so you can have productive conversations with your partner or partners.

We’ll take what you learned last month about what your turn-ons are and move it a step further to teach you how to talk to your partner about your turn-ons. No one is a mind reader, and this is the way to get the sex life you’ve always wanted. This class is perfect for anyone who finds the idea of talking to their partner about sex paralyzing, and also for those who have tried to have conversations in the past that were unproductive or led to fights and hurt feelings.

I am here to help you take charge of your sexuality and confidently express your desires to your. This class is open to individuals and couples of all genders and sexualities. You don’t need to have a partner or any previous experience to attend, and all registrations include a recording of the class.

This class is part of a yearlong series and other upcoming classes include Mars and Venus Are Bullshit; Time Me, Spank Me, Talk Dirty To Me, Part Two; and Exploring Non-monogamy. Go to www.leahcarey.com/classes to get your ticket for the April 23rd class and fall in love with your sex life in 2023. Go to www.leahcarey.com/classes for this transformative experience.

Speaking of absolutely nothing related. I’m prepping all of these episodes in advance of my surgery, which I talked about a while back, so I can’t say for sure what will be going on when you hear this, but if everything is going according to schedule, I should be about 48 hours out from surgery to finally remove all of my baby making equipment.

And I can’t tell you how excited I am to finally be getting this. Please send good thoughts in my direction, or more specifically in the direction of my surgeons. What I really want is for the surgeons to have good sex the night before the procedure so they’re feeling happy and satisfied. I want them to have a good breakfast so their blood sugar is even, and I want them to be in happy partnerships, both at home and at work, so their hands are steady and sure.

Whatever it takes for them to be as happy as possible. Okay, so that’s enough of that. Back to today’s show. Let’s get in the time machine and go back to January 17th, 2019 to revisit the very first episode of Good Girls Talk About Sex. At the time of the interview, Liz was a 37 year old cisgender woman who describes herself as white.

Primarily monogamous and very single. I am so pleased to introduce Liz.

Liz, thank you so much for being here. I’m really happy to have the opportunity to talk to you.

LIZ: Thank you for having me.

LEAH: And thank you for being brave enough to do this.

LIZ: Thank you. Thank you.

LEAH: So the first question that I ask everyone I talk to is what is your first memory of sexual desire?

LIZ: Sexual desire. I remember being seven or eight, maybe a little older, maybe nine. And I had the biggest crush on this boy named Chris, who I knew through church actually. His parents were congregation members and so my parents, they knew each other. And he was the eldest of three boys. So there was one of his brothers, Alex, I think, was the same age as me, but I had the hots for Chris. The only word that I can use to describe it is squirmy.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: I felt very squirmy around him like, “This feels weird and awkward.” And because I played with boys before like tag, and on the swings, and jungle gyms and stuff, I was kind of a tomboy. So I played with boys before on the playground but I’d never really wanted to just sit down and hold hands with one, so I think he was the first object of sexual desire.

But further back, now that I think about it and I’m talking about the swings. I remember sitting on a rope swing at age five or something and going, “Oh, this feels good.”

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: “I don’t know what this is but can I do it again?” Because I had no knowledge of body parts and why that would feel good. But it’s sitting on, sort of wrapping your legs around, and having this strong, sturdy knot of rope near your clitoris and vulva and all that. So I was like, “Oh, this feels nice.” But I had no idea why, and then a few years later, Chris was like the object of desire.

LEAH: Did anything ever happen with Chris?

LIZ: No. I mean I would chase him around the playground and stuff but like nothing ever came

to be.

LEAH: What kind of conversation was there in your home around sex? What did you see your parents doing or hear them saying?

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: So my parents were older when they got married and had me. My dad was almost forty when I was born and I’m the only child. I learned at a very young age that it’s not that they didn’t want other children but my mother was ill before she had me and was somewhat at a great risk to have a baby. And then when I was five, she had surgery. She had Colitis and so she has a colostomy bag and it’s a little difficult to get pregnant when you have a colostomy bag.

[LAUGHTER]

So it’s not like I didn’t ever see my parents as very sexual people, but I also saw them being completely fine being naked in front of each other. So it was very okay to be naked when I was younger.

LEAH: And they were naked in front of you as well?

LIZ: My mom was. My dad was never naked in front of me. When I was naked in front of him, my dad felt a little weird about it. Even as I was growing up and hit puberty and started having boobs and wearing bras and having to shave armpits and legs and all the things and feeling fresh down there and all of that, he would sort of like not want to be part of it. And he didn’t want to know about my sex life but my mom was very open with me. I remember her telling me when I was young, I asked her what it’s like to have a baby because I think someone in our lives was pregnant and having a baby or something. And so as a six year old, I was like, “Oh, what‘s like that mom?” Super curious. I remember her telling me, “Well, it’s like having a very big poop.”

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: “But obviously it comes out in a different part of your body.” And then she sort of explained the female anatomy a little bit to me. But yeah, she was like, “It’s like having a very big poop.” And now as an adult, I’m like, “Oh, I totally get that.” I’ve never been pregnant or had a baby but now I’m like, “Yeah. That’s intense.”

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: So my mom was very open with me from when I was little but at the same time it was like, “Yes, but we won’t tell your dad.” Even if we were on the phone with each other, she’d sort of whisper and she’d ask me questions about sex like this. And so it sort of reiterated. We don’t really talk about it. Yeah, we didn’t really talk about it.

LEAH: How old were you when you started dating?

LIZ: Oh, wow. Dating. Maybe fifteen, sixteen.

LEAH: And was that cool with them or did you have to hide it?

LIZ: No. No. I never had to hide that. My first, I guess, boyfriend, I didn’t know how to be in a relationship. I felt very uncomfortable dating going through puberty. Mostly because a lot of my friends were talking about sex and we’re thirteen, fourteen. And I was like, “I don’t want to do that yet.” I just knew in my body and myself that I didn’t want to do that yet. I didn’t feel that that was for me, but a lot of my friends were like, “Oh my God. We were making out and then we wanted to have sex but we didn’t want to because my mom was in the other room.” And we’re gossiping about it and I also hate gossip.

So I think I conflated being sexual with somebody and gossip at a younger pubescent age so I was like, “I didn’t want to do that.” Maybe if I did want to have sex, I definitely didn’t want to gossip about it. So it was easier for me to just be like, “Well, I just won’t date and/or have sex” because everyone’s going to want to know what the fuck is going on in my life and I don’t want that.

[LAUGHTER] LEAH: Oh, wow.

LIZ: “Oh my God. It’s because we never talked about it when I was little.” and like, “Oh, you’re such a great interviewer. Okay.”

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: My first boyfriend was this guy and he was really into me and I was kind of into him and we wanted to kiss and stuff, but I wasn’t ready to be physically intimate with anybody. I was totally okay being like a friend, emotionally intimate, and making out and stuff, but like, “No.”

LEAH: That’s interesting. So you weren’t ready to be physically intimate but you were okay with kissing. So where was the line between what’s okay and what’s not okay?

LIZ: I think for me it was totally okay to kiss and kissing felt good to me. I mean I sucked at it at first.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: I was like, “How do you use your tongue? This is weird.” I remember one time I think we were playing spin the bottle at a sleepover. I was twelve or so, twelve or thirteen. There was this boy.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: I think his name was Lucas. Anyway, I spun the bottle and it landed on him and this was later in the game and so there were a lot of other people and they were like, “Yeah. French kiss! French kiss! Like not just a little kiss, but a real kiss. Tongue! Tongue! Do the tongue!” And I was like, “I don’t want to do that.”

But I was peer pressured and so I went over to him and started to kiss him, but I didn’t know how to use my tongue to kiss. I remember I sort of went out, you tilt your head, and then your lips go out like you’re opening them and you’re going to kiss them and then he stuck his tongue out. And I just remember wrapping my lips around the tongue and sucking like it was a lollipop. As soon as it was over, I was like, “That’s not right.”

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: That’s not how that’s supposed to happen and he had a look of like, “What the fuck just happened?” on his face and everybody in the room was like, “What?” and they laughed and so people were laughing and pointing and I was like, “This is great. I feel horrible right now.”

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: It was an appropriate amount of embarrassment, but it was also like nobody talked about it after that because it was just spin the bottle and it was just stupid, silly stuff and we all knew each other from school so it wasn’t like a big deal.

But later, once I actually wanted to kiss somebody, once I actually felt attracted to somebody and I was like, “I want to like hug them. Maybe I want to kiss them. Maybe I want to make out with him on the couch.” That felt safe to me. Kissing felt safe. Making out felt safe. And I think I’m a bit of a control freak so I think there was also a factor of I can get good at kissing and I can sort of control what’s happening in my own body. I can control the feelings that are happening. I can control the situation. I still have my head about me versus anything beyond that. I wasn’t ready for that. I wasn’t ready to not be in control of my senses.

LEAH: So did making out include boobs? LIZ: A couple times.

LEAH: I’m wondering at what point the pleasure becomes so much that you’re losing control of your senses?

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: It’s a really good question. I don’t ever remember being very turned on by people touching my boobs. And if there’s like making out and some clothes are coming off and sex is probably going to happen and then it’s like the boobs are part of the whole. Then I’m like, “Sure. Yeah. Awesome.” Then it feels great because you’re sort of on that whoosh, sort of like that downward, you pull the breaks and you’re just going downhill. Then that’s great. But, and especially going through puberty, when as a young girl and your boobs are growing but they’re smaller than other people’s and you’re changing in the locker room and there’s so much shame. You don’t realize the shame about how your body looks. So I think I was for me, “Oh, you’re touching these things that are on my chest”, but it never felt like it was a big erogenous zone for me personally.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: That’s so interesting to hear someone else say that because I don’t have a ton of sensation on my breasts. At least sexual sensation. And for a long time I felt really broken. I thought there was something really, really wrong with me. And it’s only been in the last couple years that I’ve learned that that’s not actually unusual. So for anyone out there who is listening, who feels like there’s something wrong with you because you don’t have a ton of sensation or you don’t get turned on by breast play, you are not alone. There’s so many of us out there.

LIZ: That’s true. That’s definitely me. I don’t think I understood how to choose other than making the choose not to do stuff because that’s a choice for sure. But I didn’t know how to explore and be curious and then choose something. I think I felt just so much safer remaining in the “not dating” and the “not having sex” columns.

LEAH: That’s a really interesting distinction. If you can choose to explore and then pull back or you can choose to just not do it.

LIZ: And I think that’s what I chose growing up because it felt easier to me. I think knowing myself now as I do because you know yourself more when you get older. I’m not sure I would have been emotionally able to handle the sort of exploration and getting curious and it felt big like my friends were losing their virginities at fourteen, fifteen, sixteen.

And even if they did it to society’s fairly normal ways like you lose your virginity to your first boyfriend, and then you stay together for a little while, and then you break up, and it’s okay because it’s high school. Whatever. That’s fairly average in my opinion. It’s not violent, it’s not shameful. It’s you are of age, and it’s kind of expected, and you’re with a committed partner, and you’re being safe, and you’re using protection and you’re “being smart about it”. And yet, I would see my friends even do that and I would still be like, “I’m not ready.” And I wasn’t ready until college. I didn’t have sex for the first time until I was twenty one.

LEAH: So I’m going to get there but I wanted to ask one other question first. While you were choosing to not explore with boys or with partners, were you exploring yourself?

LIZ: No. Not really.

LEAH: So you didn’t discover masturbation?

LIZ: Nope.

LEAH: How old were you when you discovered masturbation?

LIZ: I think there was a distinction here for me because I obviously knew about masturbation. People talking about it and stuff like that, but I never really tried out or maybe I touched myself but I think I’m also rather stubborn and impatient.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: So it was also like, “I’m touching myself. Yeah. Nothing’s happening. Okay. I don’t want to do it then.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: I think there was a part of me that was like unless it was immediately apparent to me that there’s going to be some result that I’m going to get out of something, I might not do something. Even if it sort of feels new and cool as I’m doing something. I think it was after I’d had sex for the first time. First few times and then I was like, “I can get a vibrator, I can get some lube and warm my fingers up. This could be something I could do for myself. Oh. Okay.”

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: That’s fascinating given the fact that you said you discovered those sensations when you were five on the rope swing.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: Yes. Yes. And that was by like accident. I didn’t know what it was.

LEAH: It’s curious to me that a child in their exploration wouldn’t find ways to recreate pleasure just like in our childlike ways, not because it was sexual, just because kids like things that feel good.

LIZ: Yeah. I never really thought. Even to this day, I don’t really masturbate that often so maybe I had in my past touched myself or I mean, I’ve ridden a few horses as well in my day.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: I was in Girl Scouts and we’d go on horse riding expeditions or whatever as a troop so maybe there were certain things like that but I never actively sought out ways to masturbate even if I didn’t really know what it was or how to do it. I never actively sought it out until I was already having sex.

LEAH: So let’s talk about the first time you had sex.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: Yeah.

LEAH: What made you feel at that point like you were ready?

LIZ: Yeah. Well, I was dating somebody in college and we had known each other for many months and you stay up all night talking like legit stay up in PJs and sort of staring at each other and talking. We were doing that for a very long time before we decided to actually date. And then we were dating and sort of making out and doing some things and then that was going on for a while before we actually decided to have sex. So it was a very slow process for me and it was not like, “Whoops. That’s happening.”

I thought about it. We both considered it. We talked about it beforehand. In that sense, I felt very ready because I knew who this person was and I knew who I was with this person. And I knew how I felt about this person, which I felt very strongly about him. I was very in love. I trusted him a lot. I had a lot of trust in him and so when we finally had sex, it was like, “Yeah. This makes sense.” It sort of fell into a place that made sense in our relaltonship because we were very committed to each other at that point and there was a part of our relationship before we had sex that was long distance also. So it was like I can rely on this person. I can trust this person. He’s not going to have sex with me and ditch me the next day. I knew without a doubt that that would not be the case.

And when we would talk about sex, not just intercourse, not just having sex, but when we would talk about blow jobs and hand jobs or going down on me or any of the things, it was always like he always, maybe he didn’t say these words exactly, but he was always asking me, “What do you feel comfortable with?” And so we would try things out where I would be like, “I feel comfortable doing this.” And we would try it and then I’d be like, “Well, that didn’t work, did it?” And he was like, “Well, I think it’s because you think it has to happen this way.”

So like, for example, I remember giving him a blow job but I wanted him to wear a condom, which doesn’t make sense to me now because now I love giving blow jobs and I’m really good at it. I’m like, “Why would I want a condom on that? Then you’re just tasting plastic latex stuff like eww.” And it doesn’t taste good.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: But that’s what felt okay at that time because I was not ready for that and so he was willing to do that. So the fact that he was willing to do that and then made me feel comfortable with any sexual act we were doing, by the time we were doing sexual intercourse, it was like I felt completely safe with this person. Hundred percent. Thousand percent.

LEAH: Just to offer the flip side of that. [LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Which is that my partner and I now, I said to him up front, “I enjoy giving blow jobs. However, I am not open to having you cum in my mouth or on my face.” That’s just an experience that’s a hard red line for me and he was so open to that and so he introduced condoms into the blow jobs.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And then he found some that didn’t have a bad taste and now it’s a win-win like he gets to have blow jobs and then I enjoy giving it to him and I don’t have semen in my mouth.

[LAUGHTER] [MUSIC]

LEAH: Attention, all Good Girls Talk About Sex fans! Are you looking for a way to support the show while also getting some amazing exclusive gifts? Well, you have found me at the right time. If you’ve been listening recently, you know, I just relaunched Patreon with a whole new set of levels and perks and gift.

In the past, your primary reward for contributing was the good feeling of spreading sex positivity. And while that is important, now you get that plus some awesome patron-only rewards. There are a bunch of drop. Dead gorgeous handmade Woodburn gifts you can get in the mail. But today, let’s start simple and talk about the digital offerings that are available at the $3 level.

You get my eternal thanks for your support. You’ll notice I’ve raised the lowest tier from $1 to $3. Because of the way the Patreon processing fees work, I pay out 33% of that income. If it’s $1, it’s only about 15% of that income. Of course you’re still welcome to make a custom pledge of $1, and I will still deeply thank you, but it’s no longer an official tier.

At the $10 tier, you’ll get a monthly voicemail from me reminding you of lessons from the world of Good Girls Talk About Sex, that means you’ll have me in your ears talking directly to your brain about your lovability, the desirability of your body exactly the way it is, the importance of consent and.

You’ll also get a behind-the-scenes video with many episodes. As soon as I finish recording an interview, I will immediately turn my camera on and give you my thoughts about that conversation, ideas that stuck with me, things that I want to talk more about, questions that came up during the conversation. Whatever is going on in my brain, I’m going to share it with you.

At the $35 level, you’ll get all of that. Plus you can send me a voice memo with a question about your sex life, and I will send you a personalized voice memo response. It’s kind of like a mini coaching session.

And at the $50 a month level, you’ll get all of that plus free entry into my monthly online series of classes.

In the next episode, I’ll tell you more about the handcrafted wood-burned magnets, keychains, and spanking paddle you can get in the mail. Plus, when you become a patron, you know your money is doing even more good because 10% of all Patreon proceeds go to ARC Southeast, an organization that supports women in the Southeast United States to access reproductive services that are currently being legislated out of existence.

So what are you waiting for? Join the Good Girls Talk About Sex Patreon community today at www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex and start feeling more seen, heard, and validated in your own sexual journey.

[MUSIC]

LIZ: I think there’s something because a lot of our senses in our face that we smell, we taste, we hear, we see and so when you’re in that part of somebody’s body, that is almost more intimate to me than intercourse because you’re utilizing so much more of how you take in information, sensory information with your face. That’s where all of your five senses live in that part of your body so to be near someone’s dick and their balls. I mean that’s really sensitive, for one, right? If I let anyone near my pussy, that’s sensitive.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: I have to really know you. I have to trust you. I have to feel good about letting you in there. You have to be very okay with me telling you exactly what to do because you’re near a very sensitive area of my body. So I find that almost more intimate and more connecting to somebody than intercourse. I mean, intercourse feels amazing.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: I’ll take that too if that’s on the menu. But I almost like that oral sex more.

LEAH: So it sounds like your first relationship, your first sexual relationship was a positive one. LIZ: Yeah. Regardless of what might have happened later.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: I’m assuming you’re no longer with that person.

LIZ: Yeah. I know that was a long time ago.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: But the initial experience of sex was a positive one. It sounds like it was relatively healthy. Did your later sexual relationships follow that model?

LIZ: Not all of them. [LAUGHTER]

LIZ: I’m not just going to jump into anybody’s bed but I’m also not going to wait around for Mr. Perfect either because I like sex now.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: So it was this weird, but very conscious way of sort of finding the right person, which is very weird for me to say because the very next person that I had sex was not like the right person at all whatsoever.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: And so there was this string of one to two night stands that I think that I thought were, maybe because I had a couple of dates with them or whatever, that I thought were different people than they were and then they ended up not understanding like I had a very different connection with them than they had with me. And so we would have sex for a couple of times and then they’d be dating somebody else and I’d be like, “Wait, what?”

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: “But you said things that mattered. What? I don’t understand.” So I think it was emotionally hard for me even if physically, sex really it felt fine, but emotionally it was like, “I don’t like one night stands. I’m not sure I want that.” So yeah, that was a weird time a few years after I graduated college, the sort of three or four years after. That’s how I had sex and it kept on repeating itself until I got to a point where I was like, “I need to not do that.”

And so I kind of stopped having sex for a while. I stopped going on dates. And then when I met, now an ex, but another long-term relationship, and we would go for quite a long time. It made me recall the feelings I had with my first boyfriend. And it was like, “Oh, I know you and I could trust you. And this feels right. And I feel like I can tell you things and it doesn’t feel like you’re holding anything back. And it doesn’t feel shameful. It doesn’t feel embarrassing.”

In my gut, I felt like I didn’t have to be somebody else or had to say other things to this person. So when I met my ex now, his name is Andre. When I met Andre, it was just like, “Oh. Click. Boom. I know you.” And that was almost six years that we were together and that’s the longest

relationship ithat I’ve been in. And that was really healthy sex. He was very respectful of women and he was very respectful of my body and I was very respectful of his but we would also shave each other’s pubic hair.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: And do fun relationship things. Like sexy things together and it was very healthy. LEAH: What kind of fun sexy things did you do together?

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: Well, I remember we went into this sexy toy shop and they had, I guess, it’s a vibrator but you sort of wear it like over or under your underwear maybe, and it has a little thing so it looks like a butterfly. And it sort of, at the butterfly’s mouth which is near your clit, it sort of has like a little thing so it’s touching your clit but just barely. And then there’s a remote control that can turn it on and turn the volume up and stuff so like we used to do that out in public. Yeah, but not like any old day out in public.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: But like if we were going to a friend’s birthday party or we knew that we would only be out for a couple of hours or whatever. Or when we go out to see the movies together. Something like that. Although at the movies it was kind of risky because it sounded like how his phone sounds like when it’s buzzing like it’s going off.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: So I’m sure if you were in the movies and somebody’s phone was going off, you’d be looking around trying to find whose phone was going off so that was a little risky. We’d talk to each other too. Even if we were physically exhausted because of the days that we were having because of life, we would talk to each other like, “Remember last time we had sex and we did this thing with your finger. Yeah, I really liked that.” And we would just say things like that to each other. He bought me sexy underwear. I still have it. He went to Italy with his grandfather and he brought back really sexy, nice Italian fabric underwear. I mean he treated me with a lot of respect and thought of me as a sexy person so that felt good.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: That’s such an interesting thing that when our partner thinks of us as a sexy person and treats us that way, there is an effect on how we think of ourselves. So can you talk a little bit about how that affected you?

LIZ: Yeah.

LEAH: Do you see yourself as a sexy person in general? Let’s start there.

LIZ: No. No.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: That’s a good place to start. I don’t generally think of myself as a sexy person. It’s not a word I would use to describe me. I would think I’m adorable or I’m charming and those are all really nice warm words but sexy is like it’s a different level. I felt sexy when he would say I’m sexy. It was never like, “Oh, now I’m sexy.” But it did make me feel powerful, yes, but also I think there’s a specific kind of empowerment that comes because I knew that he had my back so it was like I feel powerful but not in a “Hah-hah-hah! I have all the power!” It wasn’t that kind of power. It was kind of like a sturdy, steady like, “I got this.”

LEAH: I remember when I was going through my time of intense sexual exploration and I was working with a really great coach. And I said to her at one point, “I don’t want to go through this feel like my validity as a sexual person is based on what other people say to me, on other people finding me sexy.”

And yet at the same time, I didn’t receive the appropriate mirroring as a child that would allow me to think, “Oh, I’m a person of value. I’m a person who others would be interested in or who would be attracted to.” And that needed to come from somewhere. And so for a while it was really, really important to me to find other people who could say that to me in a healthy way so that I could begin to take that in and see it for myself. I think we have this sort of odd relationship in this culture right now outside validation where people are like, “We don’t need it at all. It’s entirely not necessary. I have to do it for myself.” Except if you’ve never learned those lessons to begin with, you kind of can’t do it all for yourself.

LIZ: Yeah. No, and I think there are certain things that we can’t really learn about ourselves unless we’re interacting with other people. So yeah, I think sexually if you lived in just the feedback loop of yourself like, “I’m masturbating. I like the way I’m masturbating.” This is all good positive feedback but that’s not real feedback, like a loop.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: You need to hear somebody tell you like, “Oh, sweetie. I like your ass.” You need to hear that because you’re like, “Oh my ass. What? I forgot about my ass.” Because you can’t hold all the thoughts in your head at the same time.

LEAH: You mentioned that your last relationship ended a few years ago. What has your sexual experience been in those years? How are you handling being single?

LIZ: Oh, I don’t think I’m doing very well. [LAUGHTER]

LIZ: I’ve had a couple of amazing sexual encounters in the last few years and they are not with people who are able to commit to a relationship so there is a bit of like, “I’m very single but it

doesn’t mean I’m not having any sex.” But I’m pretty sure all of the people I’ve had sex with since breaking up with Andre are people who are not ready to be in committed, big, long-term relationships. I mean I respect them and we have respect and love for each other, but they don’t want to be my boyfriend or partner or husband or anything like that. I just like connecting with people and unfortunately, either sex will happen, and it’s only happened maybe three or four times in the last handful of years. So I have sex like on average annually.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: I have sex like once a year now. I masturbate often because I’ve had since learned how to like it and I have my vibrators and it’s all good. I’m actually looking for a relationship but I think I don’t know how to date. I’m such a person that I really connect with people. If we connect on various levels and we are both wanting to progress a relationship together and do the work, I’m already there. Relationship-wise, not having a lot of luck, which is unfortunate because I think I would make an excellent partner. We’d still have to work on it and I’m not afraid of that work at all. We’ll see.

LEAH: I will wish that for you. [LAUGHTER]

LIZ: Thanks. Thank you.

LEAH: So the name of this podcast is Good Girls Talk About Sex. So what did those words mean to you if anything when you were young and what do those words “good girl” mean to you now?

LIZ: I think growing up, good girl was like, “Good girls don’t have sex, but even if they do have sex, they have sex for the right reasons.” Good girls don’t make mistakes when it comes to sex.

LEAH: Oh, interesting.

LIZ: Yeah. They think about it. They know who they are. They’re making conscious choices.

They’re never just like, “Oh, fuck it.”

LEAH: So it’s okay for good girls to have sex but they have to be mature and thoughtful about it?

LIZ: Yeah. Mature. In my mind, there was always like, “A good girl is someone who is mature who doesn’t fly by the seat of her pants.” She’s really thinking about what she’s doing and why she’s doing it. Absolutely. And maybe probably a little pious and judgy, probably judging other people. “You’re having sex already? Ugh.”

[LAUGHTER] [MUSIC]

LEAH: Are you aching to explore new vistas of your sexuality?

Do you hear me talk about concepts on this show and think, “It makes sense, but I need help applying it to my particular situation!”

That’s where personalized sex and intimacy coaching comes in!

When you work with me, I promise to help you feel safe exploring your sexuality. Together we’ll look at your needs and desires without judgment, and help you figure out how to fulfill them.

There is no single answer that’s right for everyone, so I’m going to help you discover what’s right FOR YOU! And we’ll go at your pace – that’s the pace that respects your emotional needs, your boundaries, and your nervous system.

Because going too fast can send you into shut down, while going too slow can be infuriating and exhausting! The goal is to find what’s right FOR YOU!

I work with clients who are motivated to explore many different areas of sexuality, including things like:

  • Expressing your sexual desires to current or future partners
  • Exploring if you might be queer
  • Challenging body image insecurity in sexual relationships
  • Dipping your toes into BDSM
  • Exploring consensual non-monogamy
  • Learning to date after a long time out of the dating pool
  • Exploring your sexuality for later-in-life virgins
  • And more!

I want you to have a deeply fulfilling intimate life, and together we can help you get there.

For more information and to schedule your free Discovery Call, visit www.leahcarey.com/coaching. That’s www.leahcarey.com/coaching.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Before we let Liz go, let’s do the quick five. Five quick questions that we’d usually be too polite to ask even our best girlfriend.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Approximate number of sex partners? LIZ: Twenty. Twenty-two.

LEAH: Do you have sex during your period? LIZ: No.

LEAH: Because you don’t want to?

LIZ: Yeah. My periods are very heavy and rather intense and I feel very tired. They take a lot of energy from me. Forget sexual desire. There’s not really a desire to do much of anything other than consume chocolate and live under a blanket.

LEAH: I hear that.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Do you have hair down there or are you bare?

LIZ: I’m very hairy.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: I have hairy armpits. I have a hairy pussy. Because I have very dark hair, I only shave my legs when it’s really hot outside and I’m going to wear shorts.

LEAH: So you don’t trim it or do anything?

LIZ: I trim especially around the clit area because that’s where most of my hair grows. And it’s just for health hygiene reasons. I don’t want too much hair and fluid and things gathering in one place.

LEAH: How much noise do you make during sex?

LIZ: A medium amount. I’m not super quiet but I’m not very loud. I could live with other people

around me with thin walls and we would be fine. It wouldn’t be a huge problem. [LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Do you prefer to be the giver or receiver of sexual pleasure?

LIZ: That’s tough because I like both. I think when I first started having sex, I wanted to be the giver because I was more in control of it and as we discussed, it was a thing for me. But I think now in my life, it’s just reciprocal. It’s kind of like a beautiful exchange to be able to give and receive, so I like both.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Awesome. Liz, thank you so much. This has been so much fun and I’m so grateful to you for doing it.

LIZ: I’m grateful that you’re talking about this stuff. It’s important. Thank you for doing this.

LEAH: Thank you.

LIZ: I’m honored to be on the show. Thank you.

LEAH: Yay!

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Because good girls talk about sex.

LIZ: Oh, yeah, with pleasure and dignity.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Exactly. That should be the tagline of the show. Good girls talk about sex with pleasure and dignity.

[LAUGHTER]

LIZ: I like it. [MUSIC]

LEAH: That’s it for today. If you’re enjoying the show, please take a moment to leave a 5-star rating and review on Apple podcasts or, if you’re using another podcast app, go to www.ratethispodcast.com/goodgirls.

And remember there is a treasure trove of audio extras available FOR FREE at Patreon. Go to www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex. While listening to those extras is free, producing this show is not. If my work is meaningful to you and you have a few dollars to support it each month, I’ll gratefully accept your patronage at Patreon. I donate 10% of all Patreon proceeds to ARC-Southeast, an organization that supports women in the Southeast United States to access reproductive services that are increasingly difficult to obtain.

Find out more and become a community member at www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex.

Show notes and transcripts for this episode are at www.GoodGirlsTalk.com.

Follow me on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube at GoodGirlsTalk for more sex-positive content.

If you have questions or comments about anything you’ve heard on the show, call and leave a message at 720-GOOD-SEX.

Good Girls Talk About Sex is produced by me, Leah Carey, and edited by Gretchen Kilby.

I have additional administrative support from Lara O’Connor and Maria Franco.

Transcripts are produced by Jan Acielo.

Before we go, I want to remind you that the things you may have heard about your sexuality aren’t true. You are worthy. You are desirable. You are not broken.

As your Sex and Intimacy coach, I will guide you in embracing the sexuality that is innately yours, no matter what it looks like. To set up your free Discovery Call, go to www.leahcarey.com/coaching.

Until next time, here’s to your better sex life!

 

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Production credits

Host / Producer / Editor – Leah Carey (email)
Transcripts – Jan Acielo
Music – Nazar Rybak

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