I had sex with a lot of people while I was married – Lisa (update)

Leah shares the health issues she's been dealing with, and why they have brought up extensive flashbacks to her mother's cancer journey. 
Good Girls Talk About Sex
Good Girls Talk About Sex
I had sex with a lot of people while I was married – Lisa (update)
Episode art "I had sex with a lot of people while I was married - Lisa"

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Leah shares the health issues she’s been dealing with, and why they have brought up extensive flashbacks to her mother’s cancer journey.

Then we revisit a conversation with Lisa, first broadcast in December 2019.

Lisa is a 40-year-old cisgender woman who describes herself as white, currently in a relationship that is heterosexual, monogamous, and long-distance. She has also long been attracted to women and is considering the likelihood that she is bisexual.

In this episode we talk about

  • Cancer scare
  • Biopsy results
  • Hysterectomy
  • Eating disorders/body image
  • Sex outside marriage
  • BDSM
  • Anal
  • Fantasies
  • Long-distance relationships
  • Talking to kids about sex


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Full episode text

LEAH: Welcome to Good Girls Talk About Sex. I am Sex and Intimacy Coach Leah Carey and this is a place to share conversations with all sorts of women about their experience of sexuality. These are unfiltered conversations between adult women talking about sex. If anything about the previous sentence offends you, turn back now! And if you’re looking for a trigger warning, you’re not going to get it from me. I believe that you are stronger than the trauma you have experienced. I have faith in your ability to deal with things that upset you. Sound good? Let’s start the show!


LEAH: Hi friends!

Before we get into today’s episode, I’ve got some things I want to share with you. Specifically, I’ve been going through some stuff behind the scenes that I haven’t been ready to talk about until now.

This may feel a bit all over the place, because that’s how my brain is right now, so I appreciate you following along.

Seven years ago, my mother died from uterine cancer. She didn’t have symptoms until the cancer was already advanced and metastasized, so the two years the doctors were able to give us together were a miracle.

It has left me, however, with a fear of what my reproductive organs might do to me. My grandmother also died of reproductive cancer and we are Ashkenazi Jews, so I’ve got several risk factors.

For the last seven years, I’ve been paranoid about anything that was even remotely unusual. I’d had a few weird things, but they all resolved immediately.  Until a few months ago, when I started spotting and bleeding about three weeks a month. Along with unusual cramping, I was properly concerned.

I contacted my primary care physician and told her what was happening.  A perimenopausal woman having unusual bleeding could very easily be dismissed. I am blessed that my PCP specializes in women’s health and had already made it clear that because of my family history, she would be overly cautious in following up on things that were odd.

And here’s a point I want to drive home: if your health care providers don’t take you seriously, it’s time to find new providers.  I understand that not everyone has the privilege of being able to shop for doctors – if you’re in a rural area, or your financial situation doesn’t allow you to take the time it would need to look for a new doctor, you may not have any options. For that, I’m deeply sorry – it’s not okay and I wish better for you.

If you are someone who does have the ability to doctor shop, do it. For me, having someone take me seriously was potentially the difference between a minor inconvenience and losing my life the same way my mom did. Because the uncomfortable truth is that she had an abnormal pap smear a couple years before they found her cancer, and her doctor missed it. It’s possible she’d still be alive if they had followed up the way they should have.

Back to my story – my PCP immediately referred me out for an ultrasound. I had a delightful conversation with the ultrasound tech, so it was as pleasant an experience as it can be when someone shoves a wand up your vag. I knew the results were going to come back showing something because near the end she said, “We got some really good pictures, so they’re going to be able to get a clear view of what’s going on.”

A couple days later, my PCP called me. That’s always a little jarring – to hear your doctor’s voice on the phone when you weren’t expecting it doesn’t usually presage good news.

She had the results in front of her and wanted to make sure that she talked me through them before I had a chance to see them on my own because they included a bunch of words that would have sent me down a dark rabbit hole if I’d consulted Dr. Google.

Without going into detail, there’s gnarly stuff happening in pretty much every portion of my baby-making equipment.  She was careful to say that while some of the words in the report made reference to cancer, they weren’t definitive findings of cancer. She wanted me to get an appointment with a gynecological surgeon ASAP.

Now that the word “cancer” had officially entered the conversation I went into full-scale freakout mode. I also clamped down on all communications. A very small handful of people knew what was going on – my partner, obviously; a dear friend who I happened to be on Zoom with when I got the call; and my best friend who has also had a hysterectomy and has been accompanying me to doctor’s appointments.

Outside of that, I instituted an information blackout. It was partially because I couldn’t handle having to perform gratitude at a lot of well-wishes and respond to a lot of questions that I didn’t have answers for. But there was something deeper going on too.

Soon after having her own hysterectomy and discovering the cancer had already spread, my mother’s surgeon told her that her cancer was a result, at least in part, of her being overweight. At the time, I didn’t have any understanding of fatphobia or delinquent medical care for fat people. All I knew was that Mom took that message on board and over the next two years mentioned to me several times that it was her fault for being overweight. She held on to that message until the end.

So when I thought about the prospect of people having information about what was going on with me, I got stuck on the idea that people would be judging me behind my back for what was going on in my body. I couldn’t stand the idea that someone would say the words, “Well what do you expect, look at her body.”

I even put a gag order on my partner talking to the other women he’s dating – including one who is a nurse, and one who is a close friend. Obviously, the nurse could be providing some useful information and my friend (who is fat) would never in a million years say that about me. But logic had no hold on me. So for weeks I tried to pretend to the world that everything was okay, while I was very, very, very not okay on the inside.

And because my symptoms were the exact same symptoms that presaged my mother’s diagnosis, I was also having frequent and intense flashbacks to her cancer journey.

The insurance approval finally went through a couple weeks ago for me to see the gynecological surgeon. I was nervous because I was assigned to a male provider, and the surgeon who made those comments to my mom was a man. Would it be possible for a male provider to be sensitive to these acute fears about something so inherently female?

It turns out I didn’t need to worry. The surgeon is amazing. He spent a full 45 minutes with me and my best friend, patiently answering every question we had. He was thoughtful and thorough. And he also was very patient when I descended into panic territory a couple of times because his words were so reminiscent of things that had been said to my mother.

He scheduled me for a biopsy and explained that the results would be a fork in the road.  If there were no cancer or pre-cancer cells present in the biopsy, he would do a hysterectomy at his first opening, which was in April. If there were cancer or pre-cancer cells present, he would refer me out to an oncological gynecologist because the surgery would be a bit more complicated and would need to happen on an accelerated timeline.

For numerous reasons, I was rooting for an April surgery – it would mean there was no cancer present, and I’d get the surgery from this man I already trusted, rather than having to meet another provider who I might or might not feel good about.

He told me that the results would probably show up in my patient portal before they landed in his inbox, and they might have scary words in them that didn’t actually mean scary things.

“Okay,” I said. “I won’t look at them until I hear from you.”

I finally got the biopsy results a few days ago, and all good intentions went out the window. I opened them immediately. Everything was benign. Thank god.

I’ll have an MRI next week so they can get an even better view of what’s going on, then I’ll have surgery in April. I have been wanting a hysterectomy ever since my mom died, so this has all been a very stressful, scary blessing in disguise. Our health system has a long history of downplaying or ignoring women’s reproductive needs. I was lucky to be matched with a surgeon who told me up front, “You don’t have to fight me for a hysterectomy. I agree that it’s the right path for you, regardless of whether there’s cancer present or not. And if you want one, I believe you should be able to get one.”

While all this has been going on, I’ve also been in the middle of another big crisis – my sex positive community is going through a major come-to-Jesus moment when a leader in the community is finally being called to account for his bad behavior.

I experienced a consent violation with this man five years ago, so I am deeply invested in what’s going on and have taken a leadership role.  It’s a long story that I want to wait to share for a while longer – because we’re deep in the middle of it, I don’t think I have enough perspective to talk about it here. So I’ll say this: I believe in the possibility of redemption, growth and healing, so I am very glad that our community is pursuing a restorative justice model. My fondest hope is that this leader will do the work necessary to learn and grow, then return to the community in a way that allows them to use all of their many gifts, and also be a safe member of the community.

With all this going on – plus a few other things that aren’t important enough to mention but add extra helpings of stress – I need to pull some things off my plate.

Which is why you’re going to see replays of old episodes in this feed for the next few months. I’ll also be sharing some feed drops of my appearances on other shows so that there’s something new and fresh!

PLUS – and I’m very excited about this – I’m going to be rolling out a brand new Patreon set up at the end of March, so make sure to listen and learn about the AMAZING things I’ve got in store. Not only monthly voicemails and free entry into my monthly classes, but actual MERCH! And not just any old t-shirt. These items are handmade and mind-blowingly gorgeous.

We’ve got handmade Good Girls magnets, bookmarks, and keychains that are only available to patrons. We’ve got customizable charms that you can use either as a fun and flirty necklace or, if you’re collared, a tag for your collar. And for our most ardent supporters, we’ve got a beautiful handcrafted Naughty and Nice spanking paddle.

Other new patron perks include: a monthly voice memo from me reminding you of the core tenets of your lovability, consent, and other important lessons from the world of Good Girls Talk About Sex; after-the-interview videos where I turn my camera on immediately after recording an interview to share my thoughts with you; and other behind the scenes offerings. Patrons can even send in questions by voice mail and I’ll send you a personalized response!

I’ll be talking more about all of that in the coming weeks, while also sharing some fan favorite episodes.

So let’s jump into today’s replay.

This conversation first aired in December 2019.

Lisa, a forty year old, cisgender woman who describes herself as white and currently in a relationship that is heterosexual, monogamous, and long-distance. She’s also long been attracted to women and is considering the likelihood that she’s bisexual. Lisa and I connected on Instagram a while back when her partner left a string of “Thank You”s for me and Lisa told me that this podcast was instrumental in getting them to explore a new aspect of their sexual relationship. You can imagine how much I love that!

I’m so pleased to re-introduce Lisa!

I’m so excited to talk with you. You had contacted me on Instagram to say that something that I had said had made a difference for you

but you didn’t tell me what it was, or what the difference was, so I’m super excited to find out what your story is.


LISA: You know I got to keep you interested. I got to get the hook there. See now we’re talking, so obviously it worked.

LEAH: Absolutely. And for anybody else who is listening, I love talking to listeners. So if you want to be a guest on the podcast, please do exactly what Lisa did and get in touch with me and let me know.

But let’s dive in to you, Lisa. The first question that I ask everyone that I speak with is what is your first memory of sexual pleasure?

LISA: I would say probably, with another person, freshman year of high school with a high school boyfriend. I was a freshman. He was a senior. Of course, I wouldn’t go with someone my own age.


LISA: But I would say it was the first time I ever experienced sexual pleasure with someone. I had done it on my own, but probably at around the same time I would say so fourteen, fifteen, somewhere around there.

LEAH: When you say on your own, I assume you mean masturbation. Do you remember how you discovered masturbation?

LISA: Well, I’m a very big fan of the shower head and I would highly recommend for anyone and everyone although you might never get out of the shower.


LISA: So I don’t remember which came first honestly. Oh, if I stimulate here, it feels really good. If I do it with the water, I don’t know which one was first quite honestly. I don’t remember. I know I’ve heard some of your great shows and people were very, very young and experienced some pleasure that maybe they didn’t really sexually at the time. I never had that experience just personally.

LEAH: Yeah. So what was your experience with your body as a young person? How did you interact with your body? Like for me, I’m not even sure I really was aware that I had a body like it was just a thing like every other thing.

LISA: Oh, I was quite aware. I was a gymnast growing up. The kind of eating disorders along with coaching tips. Yeah.


LISA: So, certainly, I was aware of it in that way. I also was very uncomfortable with the idea. I did not want to have breasts, which is hilarious to me now because I have implants.


LISA: I would wear two sports bras. I didn’t have much but I didn’t want anything. When I got my period, I was like, “What the hell. I don’t want to get older.” Not that I didn’t want to get older. I was like, “This woman shit is just not me.” Not that I identified male. I was more comfortable not dealing with any of that.

LEAH: Yeah. So you mentioned you were a gymnast. So you had to be extremely body aware, I imagine. And you sort of mentioned as a joke, eating disorders, but I’m not really sure that was a joke. How did being a gymnast affect your sense of your body image as a young person?

LISA: You know I kind of deal with all things in my life with humor. Death, I mean just about anything I’d try to make light of because that’s just how I deal with things that are hard. I certainly was bulimic at times. I was definitely anorexic. But the funniest thing was I didn’t affect my thinking as far as, “Oh did this guy think I’m attractive? Whatever.”

I grew up, and not my parents, because my parents were always like, “You’re really smart. You’re really this. You’re really that.” They didn’t emphasize but there would always be other people because I have bright blue eyes and dark hair which is you know kind of different. I mean I remember from the time I was very, very young, people constantly commenting on my looks and that I was beautiful and this and that. I mean I guess that’s a better message to hear than some of the other messages that people hear. So I didn’t really have an issue there. It was just more my internal struggle of trying to be as thin as what I thought I needed to be for gymnastics.

LEAH: So were you still doing gymnastics when you started getting involved in playing around sexually?

LISA: No. A few things happened. My mom died and then I had a pretty bad ankle injury where I ended up having a couple of surgeries on it. So it was just like a lot of things fell into place. I did do other sports after that but I look back at pictures of myself in high school and I was extremely thin, and I don’t think I realized it at the time, but now I’m like I don’t even know how I walked on those two little legs like how did they hold me? I still had some muscle tone but I was certainly very thin under a hundred pounds when I graduated high school.

LEAH: Wow. Okay. So you were around fourteen or fifteen when you started dating or at least when you started playing around.


LEAH: So how did that start? What was your entry into that world?

LISA: I had a huge crush on this guy when I was in seventh grade or so, so that’s kind of when my hormones really kicked in, but I didn’t really look at it as a sexual thing. But it was that first “Holy shit” like my stomach dropped. I was like, “Ew. Oh my.” Right?

So that’s my first real thing. And then eighth grade, I just sort of was just concentrating on gymnastics and other things. And then I started dating this guy my freshman year and I don’t know, I mean I guess it probably progressed like anything else from kissing to touching to just touching and more touching.


LISA: We never had penetrative sex. He’d never perform oral on me and honestly, I didn’t even know if I knew what oral was for a woman. I grew up not in the Internet Age so there was no porn or anything like that.


LISA: You might find somebody’s Playboys around the house. Not in my house. But I would certainly go down on him and he was good about making sure that I got off too, which is great because I know some people’s first sexual experiences are very bad and I’ve been pretty lucky.

LEAH: So you were giving him oral sex and you were also having orgasms.

LISA: Yes.

LEAH: For a fourteen or fifteen year old, that sounds like a pretty good first experience, right? LISA: I mean, I was like, “Oh. I like this. I want to keep doing this.”


LISA: Like that feels good. And I don’t even know, it’s funny, too. I don’t know that I knew that that was an orgasm. I don’t know that I used that terminology like I knew I came to a certain point and whatever. I don’t think it was until I was a little bit older that I kind of associated. I don’t know that I ever said those words like, “Oh, yeah, he can make me cum” or “Yeah, I got off” or anything like that. All I know was I felt good.

LEAH: Yeah. So you said you didn’t have penetrative sex during that first relationship. What happened next?

LISA: So the guy that I had that insane crush on when I was in middle school actually came back around. It was like, “Oh. Wow. I really want to date you.” And we’d stayed friends this whole time so we started dating probably tenth grade and I ended up losing my virginity to him when I was seventeen.

LEAH: So you dated for a couple of years it sounds like?

LISA: We did.

LEAH: And how did that relationship progress? Was he asking for penetrative sex and you held

off? Was that a mutual decision? How did it work?

LISA: He was really good with me. I mean I never felt pressured by him at all. He was the first person who performed oral sex on me because I was like, “I don’t know”, and he just goes like, “Oh, all right.”


LISA: Like I’ve been missing out. That he really wanted to do and it wasn’t like a pressure thing. He was just kind of like, “I really think you’ll like this.” So we did a lot of messing around. I never felt pressured in fact the first time we attempted, I froze up and got really, really freaked out and nervous and he had already actually started to penetrate me. I told him to stop and he did. No issue. No making me feel bad. I was just like, “I’m not ready.” It ended up happening probably like two months after that anyway, but I never felt pressured.

LEAH: I’m so happy for you that when you asked him to stop, he did. Do you know what caused you to freeze up and have that response the first time?

LISA: I don’t. I think we put so much weight on this whole virginity thing and I think it was just like I made it such a big deal in my head. I don’t know why. It’s just like high school and people talk. I really don’t know and other people were having sex like seventeen wasn’t especially young really. But I really don’t know. I think I just got nervous.

LEAH: Yeah. And so when you finally ended up having penetrative sex, was it an enjoyable experience?

LISA: Yeah. It was. I think there was enough foreplay and he went really slow because he didn’t want to hurt me and all around, I was very, very lucky. I was having good sex and it’s funny because then I went to college and I had some not-so-good sex and I was like, “Well, shit.”


LEAH: You get to college and what happens next?

LISA: I had fun in college. I didn’t end up dating somebody for a while, but I definitely had my periods of just having fun. I mean I don’t think any different than most people when they go to college, just exploring different things, and different people, and just enjoying being young and pretty.


LEAH: You mentioned that you had some sex that was not-so-good. Was that while you were playing with various people or was that when you were in a relationship?

LISA: I was lucky that anybody that I chose to be in a relationship with, I wouldn’t stay in a relationship quite honestly if the sex wasn’t good. Something that was very important to me and something I wasn’t willing to compromise. This sounds really bad. Not a random person but maybe it was like a one-off or like maybe it was just awkward because it was the first time. Sometimes it just doesn’t work or they don’t know what they’re doing or they don’t care to listen to you. I had a guy, bless his little heart, that’s what we say down here.


LISA: He didn’t even get his pants off and he came in his pants. And it happens. I wasn’t freaked out about it. I think he was way more freaked out about it than I was. But yeah, I had some good sex in college too. I had fun. I had some relationships also though.

LEAH: Were you feeling good about your body? Feeling good about your sexuality in general? It sounds like this was all fairly positive experiences for you.

LISA: Yeah. I mean I think as young women, we kind of learn to trade on our sexuality or how we look and yeah, I was attractive and young. I didn’t have some complex like I was bad looking or I’m this or I’m that. It was just there were so many pretty girls in college which is kind of like whatever. I’m just another one of them.

LEAH: After you finished college and moved into the “adult” portion of your life, how did sexuality function for you?

LISA: So this is really interesting and lots of therapy later I realized why I did what I did. I actually got married right out of college. I think I was really looking for somewhere to belong and I felt like I didn’t belong anywhere, but I did get married right out of college so that was completely unexpected for me and probably everyone else.

LEAH: Was this someone who you had been with during college?

LISA: Not really. I mean towards the end of college. I’d known his family since I was in high school. I grew up with one of his siblings so he’s a little bit older than me but I had known their family for a long time. I just didn’t necessarily know him very well.

LEAH: And so how was the sex during your marriage?

LISA: I knew how to please myself. I knew what I needed to do in order to climax or orgasm so I use a lot of toys and things like that. I just got to the point where I just really wasn’t interested in him in that way and I will be one hundred percent transparent that I did have sex with a lot of other people while I was married to him and he did not know.

LEAH: Okay. So yeah, let’s dig in there. So when you say by the end you weren’t interested in him, had you started out having a good sexual relationship?

LISA: I mean I think anything’s good enough when it’s new. It wasn’t bad. The sex was never like, “Oh God. This is horrible” or anything like that. I just wasn’t super attracted to him. We didn’t have that chemistry. I’m a very physical person and I think not just having that super chemistry. It was hard. I mean we stayed married for seven years. Like I said, he’s a good person. So it’s really hard to leave a marriage when you have these expectations and then he’s not. He’s a great guy but I’m just like, “I’m just not there on that end of this.”

LEAH: Yeah. So at what point did you start seeing other people or having sexual engagements with other people?

LISA: Pretty early on. They were always just flings though I never had an on-going experience with anybody. My industry is such that I would be away travelling for things and it’s typically when it would happen. They would be married also. It would just be kind of like one off here and there. I never carried on a long-term or even really a short-term of anything.

LEAH: And how did that feel to you? Was it exciting? Did it make you feel guilty or something else entirely?

LISA: I definitely felt badly about it but I’ve always been able to separate my relationship from sex. For me, it was just sex and yeah, I felt guilty about it but I was just like, “It’s just sex. I’m not having any emotional attachments to these people.”

LEAH: And when your ex-husband found out, how did he feel about it? Did he feel that it was just sex and it didn’t actually matter?

LISA: Well, he never really found out. [LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Oh wow. Okay.


LISA: Surprise! No, I mean towards the end, the guy I ended up marrying after him, the rebound sort of guy, I had started talking to. We hadn’t had anything physical but it was definitely an emotional affair that started and he did find out about that and obviously, it was very hurtful to him. But as far as the other stuff, we certainly never talked about it. He probably suspected.

LEAH: So is it still true for you today and I know that we still have more story to get through, but is it still true for you today that sex can be compartmentalized from a relationship?

LISA: It can be and certainly I’ve had people where that’s all it is, somebody I just have sex with and that’s all it is and there’s no emotional attachment. But I also can be the opposite and have that emotional relationship type experience while having sex. So I can kind of do both just depending on what the mindset is for me.

LEAH: I think it’s really important actually for people to hear that it is not abnormal to have this experience of being able to detach the two things that it doesn’t make you a bad person. There’s nothing wrong with it.

I do think it’s important to clarify your relationship boundaries and your relationship agreements so that if this is something that you desire, it’s being done with integrity. But what you’re describing about being able to just go out and have the sex experience without all the other stuff that goes along with it is totally “normal”.


LEAH: And not a problem at all.

LISA: Well what’s interesting is that people are like, “Oh, you’re like a guy.” There tends to be associated more with a male type trait and so yes, I have a dominant personality and people tend to think I’m a little bit intimidating, things like that. And they’re like, “Oh, you can have sex like a guy.” And I’m like, “No.”

But I will tell you from my experience with marriage and things like that, I have not cheated on somebody after that. I really messed up. I was really wrong. I was really dumb and I do regret the way I handled that. So yes, when you say it’s important to establish like, “Hey, this is just sex” or “This is just a friends with benefits” or whatever it is or “Hey, we’re in a relationship” or “Hey, are you sleeping with other people like what are we doing?” I think it’s super important to establish that and to follow that and have continuing conversations about that honestly.

LEAH: Totally agree. I would say just about anything is okay in a sexual relationship and a romantic relationship as long as it’s on the table and talked about and both people agree.

LISA: I absolutely agree and the person I’m with now, we’ve been able to have different conversations that never in my past would have been able to have with people and really just put it out there. The more you communicate about things, the less chance of people getting hurt, and the more understanding people are. You can really just be like, “Well, alright. I never thought about that but I can see where you’re coming from.”


LEAH: Are you aching to explore new vistas of your sexuality?

Do you hear me talk about concepts on this show and think, “It makes sense, but I need help applying it to my particular situation!”

That’s where personalized sex and intimacy coaching comes in!

When you work with me, I promise to help you feel safe exploring your sexuality. Together we’ll look at your needs and desires without judgment, and help you figure out how to fulfill them.

There is no single answer that’s right for everyone, so I’m going to help you discover what’s right FOR YOU! And we’ll go at your pace – that’s the pace that respects your emotional needs, your boundaries, and your nervous system.

Because going too fast can send you into shut down, while going too slow can be infuriating and exhausting! The goal is to find what’s right FOR YOU!

I work with clients who are motivated to explore many different areas of sexuality, including things like:

Expressing your sexual desires to current or future partners
Exploring if you might be queer
Challenging body image insecurity in sexual relationships
Dipping your toes into BDSM
Exploring consensual non-monogamy
Learning to date after a long time out of the dating pool
Exploring your sexuality for later-in-life virgins
And more!

I want you to have a deeply fulfilling intimate life, and together we can help you get there.

For more information and to schedule your free Discovery Call, visit www.leahcarey.com/coaching. That’s www.leahcarey.com/coaching.


LEAH: You mentioned that you went pretty quickly, it sounds like, into another marriage. How was the sexual piece of that marriage?

LISA: So that was probably the only good part of the marriage.


LEAH: Oh no. Is that why you got married because the sex was good?

LISA: I kind of went from that one extreme to the other. I kind of did the rebound thing that a lot of us do. You go for the complete opposite. However, you’re not supposed to marry that person.


LISA: Yeah. I would also say don’t get married within a year of getting divorce like that’s not smart. But it was funny because as much as I can detach, I’m like I’m this guy’s partner and the sex was really cold. It was good as far as physically but it was very, very cold and towards the end became unfortunately abusive.

LEAH: I’m sorry. In what way?

LISA: He was always kind of verbally and emotionally abusive after we got married and then he really tried to go into the BDSM world in an unhealthy way. I enjoy the healthy consensual things but he actually really wanted to hurt me and many times he did.

LEAH: I’m really sorry. When you say that you enjoyed the healthy consensual aspect of it because BDSM as a term covers a whole lot of territory, what for you is the part that you really enjoy?

LISA: I’m very much into spanking and being dominated in a way because I’m so dominant in the rest of my life, I do like some bondage. Nothing that I would say is like so out there that people would be like, “What the hell.” Although some of my friends think it’s weird that I like anal sex, so what’s not out there for me and you, some people are like, “Wait. You do what?”

LEAH: Yeah. I asked people in the Q and A portion which we’ll get to which is what is the kinkiest thing that you enjoy? And part of the reason that I ask it is because I know that everybody’s scale of kink is so different. Something that for one person is going to be totally pushing the boundaries of what they’re comfortable with is for another person is going to be like, “Yeah. That’s a Tuesday.” And anywhere in between. A lot of people get sort of a little weirded out by that question because they’re like, “Well, I don’t think this is kinky enough to qualify.” I really want to normalize this idea that what is kinky for us is awesome like play on that edge where you are.

LISA: Absolutely. And my partner and I now have started something really interesting that I’ve never done before. I kind of discovered that the thought of him with somebody else really turned me on. Now, I don’t want him to necessarily act on it although that can be a discussion. He says he has no desire but we consider talking. But the idea of it really turns me on.

We are in a long distance relationship so many times we would go back and forth on text on fantasies of him with somebody else. So he’ll kind of set up the scenario and we’ll go back and forth about it. It’s a huge turn on for me and it shocked the hell out of me. He’s a very attractive guy so people hit on him, right? So I’m like, “All right.” Usually I’m kind of jealous and I was like not only am I not jealous, it kind of turns me on.

LEAH: That’s fascinating. So I think there’s a really important distinction between what turns us on and what we actually want to do so there are a lot of things that I can fantasize about that turned me on when I actually during my period of exploration tried them. “Oh no, that’s not going to work for me at all.” But the idea of it still turns me on and so I still fantasize it. Like you say, I might talk about it with my partner and we play with the idea of it but that doesn’t mean it’s something that we’re actually going to do in real life. And that’s awesome that the two of you have found this thing that works for you and that you understand what the boundaries are on it.

LISA: We absolutely do. I mean there are so many things that we discuss from your show so discussing the fantasy of actually doing something and the fantasy that lives in a fantasy world and that’s kind of like how we discuss things. This is the fantasy that stays fantasy. This is the fantasy that maybe we want to explore and see what we can do with this. So I took this trip, I just started listening to your podcast, and she didn’t pay me to say this by the way people.


LISA: But I took this trip and all I did was listen to your podcasts because I just discovered it from another podcast that you were a guest on and I just started writing these lists of what are my desires, what are my fantasies, what do I like, what do I want to do, what am I into? And so just really going back down that path to where I’ve always had good sex but like what the fuck do I want out of this? Like yeah, great, the guy’s going to get off. We all know that and I’m worried about their pleasure but let’s be honest, they’re much simpler than we are in terms of functionality.


LISA: But for me it was more like how do we spice this up? Because we had dated for over a year and we broke up for almost a year and then we got back together so we just talk about it. He’s like, “You’re different.”


LISA: He even commented on my post on your Instagram. He was like, “Thank you!” [LAUGHTER]

LEAH: He did. It was a whole string of “Thank You”s.


LEAH: That caught my attention.


LISA: Right? He’s like, “What the hell were you doing on that vacation?” I was like, “Well, shit, I was sitting on a ship listening to podcasts when we were at sea.” And just honestly I’m not kidding you, I’m a list maker. I took my phone out and I just started in my notes like writing down all of these things. And that’s when I was like, “Oh. It doesn’t just turn me on. Okay. That’s cool.” Like other women who do it but I’m next level like it would turn me on to think about him with somebody else although again, that’s the fantasy that we fantasize about but haven’t acted on and probably won’t.


LEAH: Are you aching to explore new vistas of your sexuality?

Do you hear me talk about concepts on this show and think, “It makes sense, but I need help applying it to my particular situation!”

That’s where personalized sex and intimacy coaching comes in!

When you work with me, I promise to help you feel safe exploring your sexuality. Together we’ll look at your needs and desires without judgment, and help you figure out how to fulfill them.

There is no single answer that’s right for everyone, so I’m going to help you discover what’s right FOR YOU! And we’ll go at your pace – that’s the pace that respects your emotional needs, your boundaries, and your nervous system.

Because going too fast can send you into shut down, while going too slow can be infuriating and exhausting! The goal is to find what’s right FOR YOU!

I work with clients who are motivated to explore many different areas of sexuality, including things like:

Expressing your sexual desires to current or future partners
Exploring if you might be queer
Challenging body image insecurity in sexual relationships
Dipping your toes into BDSM
Exploring consensual non-monogamy
Learning to date after a long time out of the dating pool
Exploring your sexuality for later-in-life virgins
And more!

I want you to have a deeply fulfilling intimate life, and together we can help you get there.

For more information and to schedule your free Discovery Call, visit www.leahcarey.com/coaching. That’s www.leahcarey.com/coaching.


LEAH: So how did you get brave enough to admit that to yourself?

LISA: I mean I guess I was just kind of at the point like there’s nothing to lose here. It was just surprising to me because I’ve always felt a little possessive in my other relationships. I don’t feel that way with him and it’s not for lack of love or caring about him or anything like that because we have a great relationship. Maybe that’s what it is. It is that I do feel so free with him that we can have these conversations and have these fantasies and have these mutual sessions on the phone or whatever it is and know that that’s where it stays. It turns him on that it turns me on.

LEAH: Oh, that’s the best. Yeah. So how do the two of you navigate having a long distance relationship? Do you do a lot of sexting or phone sex or video sex? How do you maintain that sexual connection?

LISA: Well, we send porn back and forth all day long. Not lying. [LAUGHTER]

LISA: Well it’s fun to see something and then send it to the other person and be like, “Hey, this really turned me on. I got off to this” or whatever but we sext throughout the day. We are both very physical people and that’s very important to us so we just keep that conversation going. And then he comes to visit, we have probably more sex than a lot of people have in the year maybe like in the weekends.


LEAH: How often do the two of you see each other? LISA: It depends. Once or twice a month usually.

LEAH: When you come together after a period apart, is there a period of having to get to know each other and get to know each other’s bodies again or do you just dive back in and it’s natural?

LISA: Okay. So half the time, I’ll answer the door naked.


LISA: So no, we’re good. We’re usually so ready to just rip each other’s clothes off.

LEAH: Do you expect this relationship to remain a long distance relationship or do you hope at some point to be in the same city?

LISA: No. He’s making plans to make that happen in the future so that will happen. I mean to take it slowly in so far that he’s not going to move in right away or anything like that because just after coming out from an abusive marriage even though that was five years ago or so, my space is so sacred. I don’t mean that in a weird way I’m just so protective of my space because it is my own space and I haven’t had that pretty much ever because I went from college to being married to somebody else so this is my house. This is my stuff. I want to come home and watch four hours of my murder documentaries. No one has shit to say about it.


LISA: So the thought of having somebody here and having somebody to live with again is sometimes a little bit hard to think about. But I’m just going to have to be really good at saying, “Hey, I need my alone time” or “I need to go out with my friends.” My friends are super, super,

super important to me so just making sure that even though we share the same space that I still have space, if that makes sense.

LEAH: Absolutely. My partner and I, we’ve been together for like a year and a half. And we have not moved in together yet although it’s been a topic of conversation for a while and we have agreed that at whatever point we do, we will maintain two bedrooms. We will sleep together for five nights a week but we will still have the option to spend a couple of nights a week separate because we’re both people who need some alone space and it’s nice, like you said, to be able to just turn on the TV and watch whatever you want and just have that space to do that.

And I think that’s really, really healthy and a lot of people would hear, “Oh, my God. You sleep in separate bedrooms sometimes? That’s like the end of the world!” It’s just about finding what really works for you for your partnership.

You have a teenager and another one who is coming up. How do you want your kids to view sex and how do you talk to them about sex?

LISA: At this point, I am super clinical about it. Ever since they were small children, I’ve been like, “This is a penis. This is a vagina.” I don’t like the cutesy nicknames and that’s just me. It’s not anybody else’s deal. If they walk in and I’m naked, I’m naked like it’s a natural human thing. So with my older son, I’m very much like I’ll trap him in the car because who wants to talk to their mom about this?

But I talk to him about condoms and about the responsibilities that come along with having sex with somebody. People don’t explain the female body at all like I didn’t freaking know. My favorite episode of Orange is the New Black is where they’re like, “Oh. There are three holes?”


LISA: “No. There’s a urethra? Your vaginal opening and then there’s your anus.” So yeah, there’s a lot going on down there and the schools just suck. I mean the schools just don’t really do anything. A lot of it is anatomy. So the uterus that’s where the baby is and the cervix and that kind of stuff. I haven’t really delved into pretty much the pleasure part of it. I don’t know. I want them to be positive about it.

I talk a lot about consent with my older son. Actually with both of them because my younger son doesn’t like to be touched in general without his consent which actually has been a good lesson for our whole family. Can I kiss you? Can I hug you?

Unfortunately, in this age of digital technology, I’m having conversations with my son like, “Hey, if a girl sends you a picture or you get a picture forwarded or whatever it is, you come to me right away because that’s child pornography and you can be charged even if you’re just in possession or if you forwarded it certainly you’re distributing it.” So these are the kinds of conversations that I am having to have.

LEAH: It’s a hard time. I’m so grateful I grew up before the digital age and I don’t envy parents who are having to deal with all of this.

LISA: It’s so hard. I think because obviously we know that their brains aren’t developed yet and they’ve got those impulses and you have things like Snapchat and whatever. I tell my kids, “If it’s on the Internet, if it’s sent, whatever it is, it’s out there forever.” You can never take that back so just trying to make sure they’re very careful about what they’re putting out there. I mean look at these politicians, you see something from twenty years ago or whatever it is, coming back to bite them in the ass. It’s like, “Don’t do anything that you don’t want your mother to see.”

LEAH: Yeah. The rule that I have made for myself and I’m not one to share, even take, naked pictures or anything like that but the rule that I have made for myself because I did work for a newspaper and I saw how we dealt with social media was that if I wouldn’t want to see it on the front page of tomorrow’s newspaper, I don’t post it.

LISA: And that’s exactly actually one of the best lessons I was told in college was if you don’t want it posted, don’t take a picture of it in the first place. Now, I will tell you that my partner and I very much enjoy sending those pictures back and forth but that’s something between us but I have been burned by it. My ex-husband posted pictures of me that are out there somewhere and I just kind of had to say, “You know what? It is what it is.” As far as I know, my name isn’t attached to it. It’s never come up that anyone has found that I know of but you kind of just have to be okay. It’s like if I send this there is the possibility that other people are going to see this.


LEAH: Hey friends!

If you love these conversations, I’d love your help to keep them going. There are three ways you can participate: two are free, and one is for listeners who’ve got a few extra dollars each month.

#1 – Take a screenshot of this episode right now and post it to your Instagram stories!  Tag me in your post and, if it’s public, I’ll re-share and send you a personal thank you. Word of mouth is THE.BEST. way to build buzz for an independent show like Good Girls Talk About Sex. And the more people listening, the healthier our collective sexual experiences will become!

#2 – Don’t want the whole world to know you’re listening to a show about sex? I get it! Perhaps you heard something in this episode that reminds you of a past conversation with your bestie, or something you wish your partner knew? Send them a link to the episode and a quick message about why you think they should listen.

#3 – If you have the resources to support the sex-positive work I do, I’d be grateful for your support at Patreon. Donating the equivalent of a fancy cup of coffee each month might not make a big difference to you, but it makes a HUGE difference to me! There’s no contract or obligation, you can cancel at any time. Plus I donate 10% of all proceeds to ARC-Southeast, an organization that supports women in the southeast United States to access reproductive services that are currently being legislated out of existence. It’s easy to become a patron at www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex

And one more thing:

There is a treasure trove of additional audio at Patreon that’s free to everyone. You don’t even need to have a Patreon account to access them!  Just go to www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex to start listening.

I appreciate every one of you, whether you’re a client, a contributor, a social media follower, or a silent listener.  I trust you to know what’s right for you.  Thank you for being here.

Now let’s get back to the show.


LEAH: Before we finish up, let’s get the lowdown, the questions we’re dying to know but we’d usually be too polite to ask any good girl.


LEAH: Do you prefer the orgasm from masturbating or from sex with another person?

LISA: Sex with another person.

LEAH: How is it different for you?

LISA: I feel like it’s a utility situation a lot of times.


LISA: Sometimes I just need a release or we’ve been sexting and whatever. I don’t know. Not being in control of it a hundred percent. He’s very sexy to me. Having another participant is just preferable to me. Don’t get me wrong. I can get myself off very quickly with toys or whatever it is but I would certainly pick sex if I had to pick.

LEAH: Sure. Are there sexual things you’ve tried that you never want to do again?

LISA: That’s a good question. I thought that with my current that I would not want to have anal sex with him. I’ve enjoyed it in the past but my partner is very large and I thought that that would be too painful. So we started playing with some toys and things like that and it turns out it’s pretty fun.

I would just say anything that crosses the boundary of not feeling consensual. With my ex when he tried to use the BDSM as an excuse to really hurt me and do those sorts of things. That would be something that I wouldn’t do again.

LEAH: Sure. Have you ever faked an orgasm? LISA: Yes.


LEAH: Under what circumstances?

LISA: I knew the circumstance when this guy didn’t know what the fuck he’s doing. I mean there have been times where I had a hard time. If I was very drunk which happens from time to time I have a hard time orgasming but with my partner, I’d just be like, “Yup. It ain’t happening.” He knows if I drink too much or like whatever, we’ve really talked about climaxes don’t really have to be the end all be all and sex we can still enjoy it and just not get there. Sometimes when I’m masturbating, I’m like, “I don’t think this is going to happen.” It feels good but I don’t think with him but certainly I have had in the past to kind of get it over with.

LEAH: Lisa, we’ve done it. Thank you so much. This has been an absolutely amazing conversation. First of all, thank you for getting in touch.


LEAH: And thank you for being willing to go down all these paths with me.

LISA: Well, I do like going down.


LISA: Sorry, I can’t resist. I’m seriously like a teenager. I have the mind of a seventeen year old boy when it comes to sex.


LISA: No. This has been so much fun and I’ve been so looking forward to it.


LEAH: That’s it for today. If you’re enjoying the show, please take a moment to leave a 5-star rating and review on Apple podcasts or, if you’re using another podcast app, go to www.ratethispodcast.com/goodgirls.

And remember there is a treasure trove of audio extras available FOR FREE at Patreon. Go to www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex. While listening to those extras is free, producing this show is not. If my work is meaningful to you and you have a few dollars to support it each month, I’ll gratefully accept your patronage at Patreon. I donate 10% of all Patreon proceeds to ARC-Southeast, an organization that supports women in the Southeast United States to access reproductive services that are increasingly difficult to obtain.

Find out more and become a community member at www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex.

Show notes and transcripts for this episode are at www.GoodGirlsTalk.com.

Follow me on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube at GoodGirlsTalk for more sex-positive content.

If you have questions or comments about anything you’ve heard on the show, call and leave a message at 720-GOOD-SEX.

Good Girls Talk About Sex is produced by me, Leah Carey, and edited by Gretchen Kilby.

I have additional administrative support from Lara O’Connor and Maria Franco.

Transcripts are produced by Jan Acielo.

Before we go, I want to remind you that the things you may have heard about your sexuality aren’t true. You are worthy. You are desirable. You are not broken.

As your Sex and Intimacy coach, I will guide you in embracing the sexuality that is innately yours, no matter what it looks like. To set up your free Discovery Call, go to www.leahcarey.com/coaching.

Until next time, here’s to your better sex life!

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Host / Producer / Editor – Leah Carey (email)
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Music – Nazar Rybak

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