I was the ‘other woman’ – Mia

LEAH: Welcome to Good Girls Talk About Sex. I am sex and intimacy coach, Leah Carey, and this is a place to share conversations with all sorts of women about their experience of sexuality. These are unfiltered conversations between adult women talking about sex. If anything about the previous sentence offends you, turn back now! And if you’re looking for a trigger warning, you’re not going to get it from me. I believe that you are stronger than the trauma you have experienced. I have faith in your ability to deal with things that upset you. Sound good? Let’s start the show!

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Hey, friends. In my quest to bring you stories from many different backgrounds and life experiences, I often identify gaps, stories that we haven’t told in any meaningful way. When that happens, I reach out to people who could fill that gap to invite them to do an interview. The conversation with Kristen two episodes ago fell into that category. I hadn’t had anyone on the show who was asexual, so I went out searching for a guest. And I’m always so grateful when random people on the internet say yes.

What I especially love is when I bring someone on to fill a gap and they end up telling me a story I had no idea was coming. It happened back in January 2021 with Debbie. I recruited her because she was post-menopausal and still had an active sex life. I had no idea she brough with her a story of sexual abuse in elite women’s gymnastics.

And it happened again in this conversation with Mia. I invited her to join me because she has a stutter and I was curious about how that affected her sense of self in relationships and how she communicates with partners. I had no idea that we were going to go deep on how to handle it when your partner tells you they’re not as attracted to your body as they once were. She also talks openly about having a lower sex drive than her partner and how they’re navigating that.

Mia is a 29-year-old cisgender female. She describes herself as white, straight, monogamous, and at the time of recording, she was soon to be married. She grew up in a non-practicing Jewish home and she describes her figure as tall and busty. I am so pleased to introduce Mia!

Mia, I am so happy to have you here with us today. We found each other in the online space as seems to happen these days. And you mentioned that you have a stutter. And while I love to interview all types of people, I thought that’s a really interesting story that we haven’t talked about yet is how somebody navigates the dating scene and communication in relationships when you have a stutter? So, I’m thrilled that you said yes to being on the show. Thank you.

MIA: Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here.

LEAH: Yeah. And I also want to say that your stutter is welcome here. Should it happen, I hope that you won’t feel the need to push through it or to make apologies. It’s just who you are and what we’re doing here today. So, the first question that I ask everyone is what is your first memory of sexual pleasure?

MIA: Yeah. I’ve been thinking about this question a lot over the past few weeks and I want to say my first memory is probably my first kiss when I was in high school. It was junior year and the kiss happened in a movie theater and it really just exceeded my expectations of what I imagined my first kiss would be.

LEAH: That’s nice to hear.

MIA: I know. You don’t often hear that.

[LAUGHTER]

MIA: Yeah, but there’s a big but.

[LAUGHTER]

MIA: So, it was this really good-looking guy I had just met and my friend had set me up with him, so there’s this mystery to the entire date. And he went to a different school a few towns over. And after the kiss happened, it was right before the movie started. So, the whole movie, I could barely concentrate because all I could think about was the kiss and wanting to do it again.

[LAUGHTER]

MIA: And here’s where the but comes in. I later found out the guy had a girlfriend and my dreams of ever going on another date with him were crushed. And not only that, I felt this extreme guilt for having been involved in his cheating. And really in hindsight, this first experience of dating really tarnished the rest of my romantic relationships through high school and early college, so yeah.

LEAH: Oh my goodness. Because you felt like you couldn’t trust people to be honest with you?

MIA: Yeah. And I carried that guilt around of, I was so excited in that moment. And then, my excitement quickly turned to guilt and just like, oh my gosh, is this how dating is like? I don’t know.

LEAH: Yeah. I’m curious about how did you find out that he had a girlfriend and was there any conversation that led you to believe that it definitely was cheating versus them having some sort of open arrangement that was not communicated to you?

MIA: So, my friend that had set me up, she was friends with the girlfriend. And my friend had thought they had broken up, but really they were back together. And so, I think it was communicated to me is that was not his first time he cheated on her. And so, I think, yeah, it was a situation where they got back together, and then they broke up. And it was an ongoing in and out relationship.

LEAH: Yeah. I’m sorry that you got caught up in the middle of that. That really sucks.

MIA: Yeah. You have those memories whether you like it or not, you just carry with you and that’s one of those memories that I can’t seem to shake off.

LEAH: Yeah. So, you said that it affected you through your high school and college dating, which makes it sound like maybe that has moved some as you’ve gotten into your later 20s, is that true?

MIA: Yes. It’s very true. I definitely learned a lot because I was single for most of my life before I met my fiancée. And so, I feel like I learned a lot about myself while being single and even my stutter actually really helped me find the right person because not a lot of people I met and dated, I was really able to connect with on such a deep level.

LEAH: I love that, okay. There’s so much I want to ask you, but I want to keep us on track with the chronology. So, when did this first kiss happen?

MIA: So, this happened in junior year of high school, so my third year.

LEAH: So, maybe 16-ish?

MIA: Yes.

LEAH: Okay. Had you discovered masturbation at that point?

MIA: I didn’t discover masturbation until pretty late. I think it was early college because it was the first time I was on my own or really outside of my parents’ house.

LEAH: Did you have that sense of being boy crazy and really thinking a lot about kissing or other physical anticipation?

MIA: Yeah. So, before I had my first kiss, I read a lot of books as a kid and a teen. And in these books I read, a lot of them were British teen books and they would talk about dating and snogging as they call it in the UK.

[LAUGHTER]

MIA: And I never really dated that much in high school, so reading these books was really escape and it helped fill that hole I had with not dating anyone in high school.

LEAH: Yeah. So, you find out that he has cheated with you, which is interesting. So often, we hear the story of the girl who’s been cheated on, not as often, we hear the story of the girl who’s been cheated with because in the, I think, grand consciousness of the whole thing, we think that she must be the devil who’s trying to break the relationship, which is not at all the case. You were as much a, I don’t like the word victim, but you were as much done wrong by this guy as this other girl was.

MIA: Yeah. And it did impact me a lot in my self-worth and just not feeling good enough throughout my earlier years.

LEAH: Yeah. I can understand why. I imagine the thoughts would be something like why am I not good enough to be the first choice?

MIA: Yeah. And I always felt as soon as I would get excited about a guy, it would eventually lead to nothing and I would be left for another girl. And so, I would constantly just think I would never have someone. And this even led me to having a long-term relationship with someone that I knew deep down that wasn’t the right person for me, but I so craved that partnership that I just stuck with him anyway. And this was the relationship before my fiancée, so yeah, a lot of that just it carried into that first long-term relationship in college.

LEAH: Yeah. That’s a story that I relate with a lot, that feeling of I’m not good enough, so I need to take whoever is showing me attention because maybe, I’ll never find attention anywhere else. Even if they’re really not good for me.

MIA: Yeah. I am fortunate where at least I’ve had had some experiences that were very unpleasant but as far as a relationship goes, I’ve never had a toxic or unhealthy relationship. So, I feel very lucky in that. It’s just the partner I had before, it was just a very comfortable relationship and I was sacrificing a lot of myself because I was very driven and passionate and he seemed more content with just having a more chill and not as passion-heavy as life as me. And so, that’s where I settled a little bit.

LEAH: Yeah. So, let’s go back again to high school. I keep wandering off the track to ask you other questions.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: You mentioned that there were a few times where you got excited about people and then felt let down. So, can you tell me a little bit more about those experiences?

MIA: Yeah. So, there was in my senior year, so the next year, I was seeing this football player and I was really excited about him, but he ended up ghosting me. It wasn’t a term then, but I’ll use that term because that’s the most fitting. And it was just really embarrassing because I verbalized my excitement to a lot of my friends. And then, I had to tell them when he wasn’t interested anymore. I had to tell them that it didn’t work out.

And then, there was in my first year of college, I think it was the first time I really fell for someone. I fell for this guy. He was a senior and I think the reason why I fell so much for him is because one, he was older and two, he reminded me so much of my dad.

[LAUGHTER]

MIA: And my dad is so unique. So, I was just like, oh my god. I’m never going to find someone like this ever again. So, I fell hard. And then, he ended up dumping me. And so, that was really the first time that I felt really heartbroken, even though it wasn’t a long relationship. I think it was the first time I really started planning out a future with someone in my head.

LEAH: Yeah. So, in those two relationships, how far did things get physically?

MIA: I didn’t lose my virginity until end of senior year. So, those earlier relationships before that, it was just kissing. And then, I lost my virginity, it was actually prom night. I had a plan to lose my virginity on prom night no matter what. I just wanted it to happen.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: That is the plot of so many movies.

[LAUGHTER]

MIA: I know. And I think it’s the movies that really drove that goal. And so, I ended up losing my virginity to a guy I kind of liked and he ended up not wanting to have a relationship so that had a lot of psychological effects too. And it wasn’t a good experience at all. It was so uneventful and I was just like, this sucks.

LEAH: When you say uneventful, does that mean that you didn’t have any pleasure, that you didn’t have an orgasm, or that it was just terrible all around?

MIA: One, I didn’t feel any pleasure at all and two, we did it in a way where everyone knew it happened. So, it was like I had to do a walk of shame afterwards, which was annoying. Yeah, it’s weird because that specific event doesn’t really have a big impact on me because I think it did in the moment and at the time, but looking back in hindsight, I really just say, wow, I was a teenager and that was just where my head was. There’s no judgment there, which is good. I’ve come to that place.

LEAH: Yeah. So, you’ve now had sex. It sounds like you haven’t really had much pleasure at all yet. Is that accurate?

MIA: Yes.

LEAH: Okay. So, then you get to college and what happens in college?

MIA: Yeah. So, college, it was an awesome experience because I had a lot of sexual partners and I think the person that I had my first orgasm with was when I was studying abroad in Israel and it was with this really rich French guy.

[LAUGTHER]

MIA: So, yeah, that was out of a romance novel.

[LAUGHTER]

MIA: Yeah. And he ended up breaking my heart too. That was the first time I really was like, this is what can happen.

LEAH: So, there was a lot of pleasure involved there, it sounds like?

MIA: Yes.

LEAH: And what was that like for you to have those feelings for the first time?

MIA: It was really good because no partner that I had before had really cared that much and he seemed to really enjoy making me feel good. So, that was the first time where I was like, this is another form of relationship that I just never experienced. Yeah, it was. But I wouldn’t really consider myself a very sexual person. I like it, but I feel like it’s not one of the top things that I need in relationship, if that makes sense.

LEAH: Absolutely. So, what are the things you really need in a relationship?

MIA: So, I think this really goes back to my stuttering. I really need someone who’s patient. That’s number one because when you’re dating someone with a stutter, you have to be patient because sometimes, it takes a while for the person who stutters to say what they want to say. And I really want someone whose very driven and passionate and someone that I can laugh with. And my fiancée has all three of those qualities and it really helps because when he was younger, he used to have a stutter. So, there’s this deep understanding there.

LEAH: Yeah. So, what are some of the things that people would do that would clue you into the fact that they are not patient?

MIA: Sometimes, they would try to finish my sentence or give me a weird look or make fun of me in a joking way, yeah.

LEAH: That’s terrible.

MIA: Yeah. And I think it wasn’t only what the other person did, but it was also myself too because sometimes, I would hide a big part of myself, which really is my stutter. And the more I hid it, the less authentic I was being. And I think a lot of people pick up on that, whether it has to do with my stuttering or not, I think there’s this unauthentic side that comes up, which makes it really hard to connect with people.

And so when I try to hide my stutter, it’s hard to connect with people and when I stutter, it’s hard to connect with people. So, it really was a lose-lose situation. And I think that was through high school, I just think in hindsight, I really was hiding a lot of myself growing up and I feel like no one really understood me in high school. And so, maybe that’s why I wasn’t really able to date or there was something blocking myself from dating.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Are you aching to explore new vistas of your sexuality? Do you hear me talk about concepts on the show and think, “It makes sense, but I need help applying it to my particular situation?” That’s where personalized sex and intimacy coaching comes in.

When you work with me, I promise to help you feel safe exploring your sexuality. Together, we’ll look at your needs and desires without judgment and help you figure out how to fulfill them. There is no single answer that’s right for everyone. So, I’m going to help you discover what’s right for you. And we’ll go at your pace. That’s the space that respects your emotional needs, your boundaries, and your nervous system. Because going too fast can send you into shutdown while going too slow can be infuriating and exhausting. The goal is to find what’s right for you.

I work with clients who are motivated to explore many different areas of sexuality including things like expressing your sexual desires to current or future partners, exploring if you might be queer, challenging body image insecurity in sexual relationships, dipping your toes into BDSM, exploring consensual non-monogamy, learning to date after a long time out of the dating pool, exploring you sexuality for later in life virgins, and so much more. I want you to have a deeply fulfilling intimate life and together, we can help you get there. For more information and to schedule your discovery call, visit www.leahcarey.com/coaching. That’s www.leahcarey.com/coaching.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Stuttering is not something that I have experience with. So, I’m curious to hear you say that you would work to hide your stutter because I didn’t actually know that that was possible. So, I’m curious what does it mean to hide your stutter and how would you even do that?

MIA: So, there are a lot of forms of stuttering. I would even go as far as to say that each person stutters differently. Some people are able to hide their stutter and sometimes, this can be done through therapy. Sometimes, I would have my own techniques where avoid certain words, find the synonyms for certain words I know I’ll stutter on or to just not talk as much. And then, a lot of people would think that I was shy, which I’m the opposite of shy.

[LAUGHTER]

MIA: So, there’s certain ways you avoid and hide your stutter while also hiding a lot about your personality. And so, there would be some moments I couldn’t hide my stutter and I would just stutter, but I got so good at hiding it that a lot of people would never know I had a stutter. And so, that’s how it works. Although there are some forms of stuttering where a person cannot hide it, and so it just buries.

LEAH: I can see what you mean when you say that you avoid certain words or you just don’t talk as much. That makes a lot of sense when you say you weren’t able to connect as deeply because when you’re thinking so much about how to communicate, it makes it harder to just show up and communicate.

MIA: Yeah. It’s really difficult. And one of the things that I was able to use stuttering to my advantage was when I started dating after college, I was able to really figure out really early on, usually by the first date whether or not that person was good for me or not. And so, I think that system really helped me be picky. And so, it did work in my favor. And I think after college, I was more clear in the kind of partner I wanted.

LEAH: Were there times that you said, “Screw it, I’m going to go with someone who I know isn’t good for me because damn, they’re cute?” Was that really one of your top priorities?

MIA: Yeah. I think when I started dating again after college, the first year or so, I wasn’t really looking for anyone serious. And so, I was just going with the flow and I would see guys, even if I knew that they weren’t good for me, I’d still just see them for the companionship and just to have someone to hang out with.

But then, when I met my fiancée, I knew right away that he was the one because, yeah, I just knew it and I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that he was so patient and he was so understanding about my stutter. It never even fazed me. Like when I would stutter, it was just talking to someone that could see past my stutter into who I really was and I had experienced that once or twice, but never was it those three things that I had mentioned and the whole stuttering thing. So, the phrase is he ticked all the boxes.

[LAUGHTER]

MIA: I knew right away. I was like, how can I make this guy stay in my life a long time? So, I was very sneaky about it, but it worked.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: All right. We need to know all about that.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. So, what was your first kiss with him like?

MIA: It was magical.

[LAUGHTER]

MIA: I really liked his lips a lot. That was huge for me. I love the perfect size of lips. And so, that was 10/10. And it was literally like fireworks when we first kissed. So, I know that’s cliché, but it’s true.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And then, did that carry over to sex? Was sex good right away or did you have to be together for a while to figure out how to have sex together?

MIA: So, he was really experienced. So, it was pretty immediate. The sex was good from the very beginning and he’s a way more sexual person than I am. So, he had more of a sex drive than me. In the beginning, it was equal, but I just figured out as we spent more years together that his sexual drive was a lot higher than mine.

LEAH: So, that initial sex drive being well-matched is not unusual. We would call that new relationship energy where you’re like, I must have my hands on this person all of the time. But over time, those chemicals fade and that’s completely natural. So, where are you today with your sex drive? Do you feel like he’s getting as much sex as he needs? Do you feel like you’re giving more sex than you want? How’s that dynamic now?

MIA: I feel like he might need more from me than I’m giving him. It’s not a huge issue because he said that his sexual drive is not as intense as it used to be. And so, he’s 6 years older than me, but sometimes I think that he might want it more, but he’s just not saying it because he knows that I’m not as interested to do it as often as he wants. And when I met him, I was in my early 20s, so my body was a lot different too. And so, I think there might be a connection there too.

LEAH: In what way?

MIA: I’m a lot curvier now. And so, I think there might not be as much attraction as there was in the beginning.

LEAH: You think that he is less attracted to your curvy body?

MIA: Yeah.

LEAH: Is that a conversation you’ve had with him where you asked the question?

MIA: Yes.

LEAH: And what does he say?

MIA: He says yes.

LEAH: Yes, he’s less attracted?

MIA: Yeah.

LEAH: Okay. How does that feel to you?

MIA: It doesn’t feel good.

LEAH: So, how are you handling that? That’s a big thing. That’s a hard thing.

MIA: It’s a two-way street. He’s admitted that he’s not in the best shape either, but we have put a plan together for both of us to eat healthier and go on more walks. And we’re even thinking of putting in a home gym into our apartment. But yeah, I think we do have honest conversations and I think image is something that’s important to him. So, it’s like I try not to take it personally, but yeah, it’s still hard to hear and to deal with.

LEAH: That is personal. So, trying to not take it personally is hard.

MIA: Yeah.

LEAH: Yeah. I have a lot of thoughts about this.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And you can tell me to stop at any moment, okay? Promise?

MIA: Okay.

LEAH: All right. We live in these bodies that look one way in our 20s and look a completely different way in our 60s. So, the two of you are getting married, which implies that you expect to have a long-term relationship. Do you think that he would be okay with the fact that your body will change over time as will his?

MIA: I think so, yeah. We’ve been together for almost seven years now and although he’s brought up that he’s not as attracted to me as he was initially, he thinks that our relationship is more important to him than the superficial stuff. And then, I’m thinking like, okay, this is probably not the first guy to think those thoughts about his long-term girlfriend, but it’s just some guys aren’t as honest about it as he is. I don’t know.

LEAH: Yeah. You’re right. There are a lot of guys who think this and I’m certainly not putting him down. We are bombarded with images all day every day of what the “perfect” attractive desirable body looks like. And 99.5% of us don’t look like that. And so, I’m going to make some generalizations here and they are not 100%, but men tend to be quite visually focused. So, they see something and they are attracted or they are not.

And a lot of that is based in what they’ve been socialized to be believe is attractive, which is my partner and I are watching the Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson mini-series right now, so Pamela Anderson is in my head. Men are socialized to believe that that is the ideal: big boobs, tiny waist, curvy hips, beautiful legs, blonde, skinny.

Most of us don’t look like that. And so, the hard thing is that it is then on us to be okay with who we are, even without them saying, “You’re the most beautiful thing in the world.” Because if you don’t hear them saying that, and then you think, I’m not so pretty he probably won’t want me, it makes you collapse into yourself at which point, they’re like, “Not the woman I feel in love with” because it’s a negative feedback loop at that point.

MIA: Yeah. It’s definitely been hard because I grew up with a very fast metabolism, and then all of a sudden, I’m in my mid-20s and my body it seemed like just changed overnight. And so, I think I’m still grappling with the fact that before and after of that switch.

LEAH: Yeah, sure. Are there things that you know how to do to deal with your body as it is today as opposed to trying to get it back to where it was at 22?

MIA: Not really. The only things I can think of that have worked in the past is I used to run a lot and it was less about losing weight and more about just the endorphins I would get from running and the fact that it would help me just be more productive during the day is if I got a run in like more exercise. And then, I also play volleyball for fun every week. So, it’s not like a constant thing in my life. It’s seasonal. And so, sometimes I get in these exercising phases. And then, sometimes I’m just like, I don’t want to do that.

LEAH: Yeah. And that’s real. So, I’m certainly not going to tell anybody don’t exercise. If you are motivated to exercise, you go do it. It’s not me.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: I am not motivated in that way. But one thing that I really recommend if it’s of interest to you is to look at your social media feeds whether you’re on Facebook or on Instagram. Look at the people who you’re following. If you can, if you feel comfortable with it, try muting the people who fit that perfect body ideal and, in their place, follow some people who are #fatyoga, #fat dance.

There are a bunch of other hot big hashtags. In January, #ditchthediet is a big one or #fyourbeautystandards, things like that where people who live in real bodies are posting pictures of themselves. And what it does is it begins to reset your brain to understand that this is what a real body looks like.

And do that for a few days or a week or a month, however long you can tolerate it because I have noticed for myself, it makes a huge difference. When I’m primarily looking at little skinny young blonde big boobed women, I feel increasingly bad about myself versus when my feed is filled with women who look like actual real women, I remember that yes, my body is normal. It doesn’t mean that I’m completely in love with my body and I stand in the front of the mirror and I’m like, “Oh my god. You’re gorgeous today.” That’s just probably not ever going to happen.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: But that’s not necessarily the goal. The goal is just to get to, “I’m okay. This body that I have is okay. It’s normal.”

MIA: Yeah. And that’s such a great suggestion because my feed right now because I watch a lot of the reality TV like The Bachelor.

LEAH: Yeah, me too.

[LAUGHTER]

MIA: And so, I end up following these women after each season and, yeah, it does make me feel really bad about myself. So, that’s a good tip.

LEAH: Yeah. And again, it doesn’t mean that you have to turn them off completely. Just mute them for a little while. Maybe put them in a group that you can go look up. I don’t know if Instagram does that. But yeah, you don’t have to get rid of them entirely. Just don’t make them the main people who you’re looking at. The Bachelor, man, I’m a complete Bachelor addict too, and it can fuck with my brain.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah, totally. I feel like I have beaten this horse a little bit. I hope you’re okay with that.

MIA: Yeah. No, it’s been very freeing talking about this stuff.

LEAH: Good, I’m glad. And again, I’m not here to say that your fiancée is doing anything wrong. He is acting the way that we socialize our men to act. So, yes, it would be delightful if he did some learning and some growing in that way as well. But this is not the sign that he’s a bad person or a bad match. I just want to be super clear about that.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: People listening to this and being like, “She’s trying to break up a marriage. No, I’m not.”

[LAUGHTER]

[MUSIC]

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[MUSIC]

LEAH: So, how is your sex life today? I hear you that there are some challenges around body image and that your sex drives aren’t completely aligned, but when you have sex, how is it?

MIA: It’s good. It’s pretty standard, I would say. It’s not very adventurous, but again, that is maybe that there’s a part of myself that I haven’t tapped into yet, but the trend has been that I’ve never really been this person that’s just very sexually-driven and who knows? Maybe that has a lot of factors baked in.

LEAH: So, it’s totally normal to be really sexually-driven, to have a lower sex desire, completely normal. And it can change over time. So, just because that’s the way it is today, doesn’t mean that’s the way it’ll be through years from now. When you say that your, I forget the word you used, standard, yeah, we’ve pretty standard sex life, but it’s nothing adventurous, is that okay with you? Is that what you want or are you looking for more adventure?

MIA: I’m pretty content. I feel like I have a lot of pleasure in my life that isn’t sexual, if that makes sense. I feel like my life right now, it’s very full and there’s just a lot of happiness there. So, I’m not sure where I’m going with this, but it doesn’t seem as needed.

Whereas when I was in college, it was like I needed it all the time. And after college, when I was single, I just always was craving it, but I feel like I was single for so long like I didn’t date anyone seriously until second year of college, I got a lot of that out of my system in a way. That’s a very narrow view, but I do feel that I was very adventurous while I was single from, I would say, maybe 14 or 15 to 19. So, that’s a pretty long time to be single.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: How much do you and your fiancée have non-sexual touch, cuddling, just putting your arms around each other?

MIA: All the time. Yeah, one of his love languages is touch. He always likes when I touch him, even if it’s just holding his hand or putting my hand on his back at dinner. That’s his love language.

LEAH: Yeah. And for someone who has a lower sexual drive, getting your touch need met that way can be really satisfying.

MIA: Yeah, I never thought about it that way.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah, good job.

MIA: And it’s a reminder that I should do it more because it’s not my love language. So, sometimes I have to remind myself, he really likes this.

LEAH: Yeah. Are there any questions or concerns you have about sex in general about your sex life in particular?

MIA: Not concerns, but I do have a group of girlfriends and there’s six of us. And two of us are probably more on the less sexual drive, but then the other four, they’re like very open about what they’re doing. And one of my friends even goes to a lot of sex parties and stuff like across the country and it’s like I don’t judge them at all, but I just can’t really relate.

And so, when we all have those conversations, I just stay quiet and I think it’s just because I’m not sure if it’s because I was socialized this way, but I just never really felt that urge to have to experiment in all of these ways and all of these sexual experiences. I feel like I’m content with what I’ve experienced so far. So, I’m not sure if that makes me boring or not.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: It does not make you boring it all. It makes you exactly who you are. Are you familiar with the term demisexual?

MIA: No.

LEAH: So, that’s something that you might want to look up and do a little reading on. There are two different ways that this term is used. So, you may relate to one and not the other or you might relate to both. One of them is I’m only interested in having sex with people who I already have a prior connection with where I feel already an emotional connection with them. The other way that it’s used is sometimes I want sex, sometimes I don’t, I can take it or leave it. And I see you nodding.

[LAUGHTER]

MIA: I would say the second one probably resonates with me the best.

LEAH: Yeah. That’s what I was thinking. So, that is not only completely valid, it is now becoming more understood would be the way to say it. It’s a term that people are more familiar with now. So, if your girlfriends are having this conversation and they’re ribbing you like, “Why aren’t you participating or what’s your latest thing?” It might be really helpful for you to have some understanding of what demisexuality is so that you don’t have to feel like I’m the boring on in the group or I’m somehow missing that everybody else gets. No, you’re doing what is right and appropriate and comfortable for you.

MIA: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense and that’s helpful. But yeah, it’s good because they never call me out or anything and I’m always asking questions like, “What is that?” I’m just like what is this world that I’m an alien to?

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. And in order for them to talk about it, they have to have a willing listener. So, you have an important part in the conversation too.

MIA: Yeah, exactly.

[LAUGHTER]

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LEAH: And now, it’s time for the lowdown, the things we’re dying to know, but would usually be too polite to ask any good girl.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: Do you have sex during your period?

MIA: Yes.

LEAH: What’s the approximate number of sex partners you’ve had?

MIA: I would say 45.

LEAH: How old were you when you began masturbating?

MIA: 18.

LEAH: Have you ever had sex with someone with a different racial identity than your own?

MIA: Yes.

LEAH: What’s your favorite sex toy?

MIA: I like my vibrator the most.

LEAH: Is it an internal or an external vibrator or both?

MIA: It’s an external.

LEAH: External?

MIA: Yeah.

LEAH: What’s your favorite sex position?

MIA: I like doggy style.

LEAH: Do you prefer to initiate or for your partner to initiate in the bedroom?

MIA: My partner.

LEAH: Are you generally more active or more passive during lovemaking?

MIA: Passive.

LEAH: Do you prefer clit stimulation or penetration?

MIA: Clit stimulation.

LEAH: Do you enjoy G-spot stimulation?

MIA: Yes.

LEAH: Do you enjoy having your breasts played with?

MIA: Yes.

LEAH: Do you think it’s generally easy or challenging for you to orgasm?

MIA: I would say easy.

LEAH: You said that with a lot of hesitation.

MIA: Yes. It’s easy when I do it to myself. It’s harder when others try to do it to me.

LEAH: Yes. I hear that. Do you prefer the orgasm from masturbating or from sex with another person?

MIA: Other person.

LEAH: Have you ever faked an orgasm?

MIA: Yeah.

LEAH: Have you ever faked an orgasm with your current partner?

MIA: Yes.

LEAH: Under what circumstances do you do that?

MIA: When I’m tired, but I don’t want to say no.

LEAH: Have you ever said to him, “It’s just not going to happen for me tonight? I’m enjoying this, but it’s not going to happen?”

MIA: No.

LEAH: Would you feel comfortable doing that?

MIA: Yeah, but I’ve just never done it. I don’t know hwy.

LEAH: Maybe because it has never occurred to you before because it’s not something we talk about.

MIA: Probably.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. So, maybe try it sometime.

MIA: Yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: Yeah. What’s your favorite thing to do to your partner during sexual play?

MIA: I like giving him head the most because he likes it the most.

LEAH: Cool. Do you swallow?

MIA: I don’t.

LEAH: What do you do?

MIA: I just have it in my mouth, and then I just spit it out on him. and then he just wipes it up.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: And he is okay with that?

MIA: Yeah. He doesn’t care.

LEAH: Good. What kind of touch do you enjoy receiving the most?

MIA: I like probably when he fingers me and touches my clit is the best.

LEAH: What are your hard red lines, the things you absolutely don’t want to do?

MIA: I don’t want to do a threesome or anything more than just us two. And he did anal a lot with his ex, but I never tried it. In the beginning in our relationship, he asked a few times and I said no. And then, after a while, he just gave up.

LEAH: All right. Good for you for setting a boundary and maintaining it.

MIA: Yeah.

LEAH: How do you feel about porn?

MIA: I watch it now and again.

LEAH: Are there particular kinds you watch?

MIA: Nothing really in particular.

LEAH: Okay. What’s your ideal frequency of sex?

MIA: Probably once a week.

LEAH: And what’s going on now?

MIA: Now it’s once a month.

LEAH: Okay. Because he’s not initiating or why is it not happening?

MIA: Yeah. He’s just not initiating.

LEAH: Have you ever talked about it with him?

MIA: Yeah. We talk about it.

LEAH: It’s a challenging conversation to have and it’d be really helpful to have a third party to navigate that conversation because you both bring a lot of baggage into the room with you. No matter who you are, you both bring a lot of baggage in.

MIA: Yeah.

LEAH: Do you have hair down there or are you bare?

MIA: Right now, I have hair, but usually when I have more money, I get it waxed off.

LEAH: Okay. Do you enjoy receiving oral sex?

MIA: Yes.

LEAH: Do you ever worry about your smell or taste?

MIA: Yes, all the time.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: What do you do about it?

MIA: I’ve tried to get prescriptions from my doctor because I’m like, “This can’t be normal,” but she’s like, “Yeah, it is. There’s nothing you need to take.” So, I think I’m just overly thinking about it because sometimes, it seems to smell. Yeah, I’m just very self-conscious about it.

LEAH: You’re not alone in that.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: One of my favorite things has been and this is not an ad, but we got a Hello TUSHY bidet and I can use it to freshen up when I feel like things are a little more fragrant than I’m comfortable with.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: It’s been great, yeah. Do you enjoy dirty talk during sexual encounters?

MIA: Yes.

LEAH: Do you enjoy laughter during sexual encounters?

MIA: Yes.

LEAH: Have you ever felt a sexual urge that confused you?

MIA: Yes. There have been instances where I’ve been attracted to women, but never enough to pursue it. But I wouldn’t say confused because I feel like I say that openly, you know what I mean? I know, yeah.

LEAH: Sure, okay. What is your favorite part of your body?

MIA: Probably my hands, fingers. I have long fingers.

LEAH: I’ve been noticing that as we’ve been talking. And you move your hands, I’m like, “She has really pretty hands,” which I’m always very aware of because I have always felt like my hands were short and stubby. And so, I really notice women’s pretty hands.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: What’s your least favorite part of your body?

MIA: My tummy.

LEAH: Yeah. What is something about your current sex life that isn’t as satisfying as you’d like it to be?

MIA: We finally live just the two of us, so I’d like to have sex in different areas of the room of the apartment not just the bedroom.

LEAH: Yeah. I hope that you’ll have that opportunity.

[LAUGHTER]

LEAH: What belief did you have about sex as a child or teenager that you wish you could go back and  correct her on now?

MIA: I used to feel very guilty that I had sex with so many people. And so, I wish I could go back and say, it’s okay to have a lot of sexual partners. It doesn’t mean you’re like a slut or a whore or something.

LEAH: Yeah. It can mean a lot of things. It can mean you’re getting your touch needs met. It can mean you’re exploring what works for you. It can mean that you’re finding connection. It can mean a lot of things, but it doesn’t mean that you’re a bad person, that you are somehow morally wanting in any way. I am so glad to have had you here today. Thank you for your openness and your honesty. I’ve really enjoyed talking with you.

MIA: Likewise, thank you so much for having me.

LEAH: My pleasure.

[MUSIC]

LEAH: That’s it for today. If you’re enjoying this show, please take a moment to leave a 5-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or if you’re using another podcast app, go to www.ratethispodcast.com/goodgirls.

And remember, there’s a treasure trove of audio extras available for free at Patreon. Go to www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex. While listening to those extras is free, producing the show is not. If my work is meaningful to you and you have a few dollars to support it each month, I will gratefully accept your patronage at Patreon. I donate 10% of all Patreon proceeds to ARC-Southeast, an organization that supports women in the Southeast United States to access reproductive services that are increasingly difficult to obtain. Find out more and become a community member at www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex.

Show notes and transcripts for this episode are at www.goodgirlstalk.com. Follow me on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube @goodgirlstalk for more sex positive content. If you have a question or comment about anything you’ve heard on this show, call and leave a message at 720-GOOD-SEX.

Good Girls Talk About Sex is produced by me, Leah Carey, and edited by Gretchen Kilby. I have additional administrative support from Lara O’Connor and Maria Franco. Transcripts are produced by Jan Acielo.

Before we go, I want to remind you that the things you may have heard about your sexuality aren’t true. You are worthy. You are desirable. You are not broken. As your sex and intimacy coach, I will guide you in embracing the sexuality that is innately yours no matter what it looks like. To set up your free discovery call, go to www.leahcarey.com/coaching.

Until next time, here’s to your better sex life!

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