Dive Deeper with Leah Carey
I have been through the fire and come out the other side. Now I’m here to walk with you as you do the same.
I will help you take a stand for yourself, your desires, and YOUR PLEASURE.
When a dancer goes from embodying the feminine ideal to challenging it, beauty and gender standards are thrown into beautiful disarray. Monica began shaving and bleaching her bountiful body hair when she was 8. Two years ago, she finally rebelled and launched the Wet Hairy Woman project. She continues to untangle her preconceived notions around sexual and gender orientation and is learning to overcome her trauma responses while celebrating her true nature at every level. In other words … she’s gone guerrilla by going gorilla.
To see videos of Monica dancing 8 years ago and today, click here
Monica Steffey is a 26-year-old cisgender woman. She describes herself as white, bisexual, currently monogamous, and potentially interested in exploring and single. She describes her body as athletic.
Wet Hairy Women project – https://www.instagram.com/wethairywomen/
Monica Steffey’s Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/wethairymonica/
Mirrors & Numbers – Monica and Leah’s stage production about eating disorders and body image – https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZPyfFHzvbHaEsawFTBdXu59k6XCk3SP6
Improve Your Sex Life With The STARS Talk – https://www.goodgirlstalk.com/posts/podcast/improve-your-sex-life-with-the-stars-talk/
I Like Getting My Butt Slapped – Caleb & Samara have a STARS talk – https://www.goodgirlstalk.com/posts/podcast/samara-and-caleb/
Monica’s favorite sex toy is a Lelo vibrator. Here’s the full line: https://www.sheboptheshop.com/search/lelo/#partner=goodgirlstalk
Monica’s preferred site featuring porn for women – https://www.bellesa.co/
Marina Abramovich – https://www.amazon.com/Marina-Abramovic/e/B001JOH982
LEAH: Welcome to Good Girls Talk About Sex. I am sex educator and sexual communication coach, Leah Carey, and this is a place to share conversations with all sorts of women about their experience of sexuality. These are unfiltered conversations between adult women talking about sex. If anything about the previous sentence offends you, turn back now! And if you’re looking for a trigger warning, you’re not going to get it from me. I believe that you are stronger than the trauma you have experienced. I have faith in your ability to deal with things that upset you. Sound good? Let’s start the show!
LEAH: Hey, friends. There’s a lot of history behind today’s episode and I want to clue you in before we get into the conversation. Today’s guest is Monica Steffey. I met Monica 8 years ago when she was 18 and a high school senior. I was still working as a journalist for a newspaper in Northern Vermont and was assigned to cover the end of semester senior capstone projects at the local high school that Monica attended.
When she came on stage for her presentation, she was electric from the first moment. She had on a cute little dress, long thick hair, and she looked every bit of the good girl. She went on during her presentation to describe her experience with a severe eating disorder starting at age 8 and how dance had helped her to save herself.
She brought one of her classmates out on stage to demonstrate some of the principles of movement that she was discussing and I’ve never seen anything like it. The young woman who was her assistant was in black bike shorts and a black sports bra and her body was covered with black numbers that had been drawn on with a thick black marker. I’ll put links in the show notes, so you can see pictures from that day.
At the time, I was running workshops helping people to write their experiences around challenges in their lives, then putting them on stage to tell their stories. After Monica’s presentation, I was compelled to go up to her and say, “I know you have no idea who I am, but I’d love to work with you to do a stage show.” Her eyes got really big at the astonishment that an adult would take her that seriously and she immediately said yes and we began planning. A few months later, before Monica headed off to college, we put on a one-night only show of words and dance about body image and disordered eating. Again, I’ll put links in the show notes, so you can see photos and videos from that night.
Monica is, as you can imagine, very, very special to me. While we haven’t stayed in close touch, we’ve followed each other’s journeys on social media and it’s been thrilling to see her travelling around the world to dance, partnering with dance companies, teaching dance, and so much more.
Then a couple years ago in 2020, her social media posts started to change. To be fair, everyone’s did because we were all in pandemic lockdown. But Monica’s posts didn’t just change in terms of the people shown and locations, but the very character of her work started to change. Always the picture-perfect young woman who thrived on fulfilling demands of the conventional beauty standards, now she was starting to post black and white pictures of herself in the bathtub showing off underarm hair. She posted videos of herself screaming.
Soon, it became clear this wasn’t just a reaction to pandemic stress. This was a deep change within Monica’s soul and the beginning of a movement. The girl who once did everything possible to please others with her appearance had turned a corner and was diving into exploring every part of herself that she found unacceptable. She began the Wet Hairy Women project, which is at the center of everything she does today. Again, I’ll put the links in the show notes. I don’t want to give away a lot more because I want you to hear Monica talk about it herself.
She’s a remarkable woman who I believe has the power to change the world. I’m so proud of every iteration of her, the passionate young woman I met at age 18, the fierce woman of today, and every single Monica in between. The day we recorded this, she was in her New York City apartment, so you’ll hear some city noise in the background. Let’s get started.
Monica Steffey is a 26-year-old cisgender woman. She describes herself as white, bisexual, currently monogamous, and potentially interested in exploring and single. She describes her body as athletic. I could not be more thrilled to introduce Monica!
Monica, I am so excited to talk to you. We knew each other pretty well 8-ish years ago I think when we worked together, but I think the thing that makes me most excited to talk to you is that when we knew each other 8 years ago, you were the epitome of a girly girl. You were working very hard to conform to the standard beauty ideal for girls, for young women. And now, you are pretty much in the process of deconstructing the female beauty ideal completely form every which way.
LEAH: And so, I can’t wait to dive into that.
LEAH: But I do want to start where I start all interviews, which is what’s your first memory of sexual pleasure?
MONICA: My first memory of sexual pleasure, I think pleasure being the keyword there, was when I masturbated for the first time and I was a senior in high school. And it was the first time I had ever orgasmed, pretty much first time I was consciously masturbating and exploring what that was. And it was most definitely my first experience with real pleasure involved in sexuality.
LEAH: So, I have a couple of questions. One is that you made sure to really hit that word pleasure, does that mean that there were non-pleasurable, potentially non-consensual experiences earlier in your life?
MONICA: For sure. And I think I didn’t recognize or even realize that a lot of them were non-consensual because they were non-enthusiastic. And I had some consensual sexual experiences prior to that as well, but I would say that for the first three years that I was sexually active, it was never about the pleasure surprisingly.
LEAH: Not so surprisingly.
MONICA: Yeah, not so surprisingly. That’s a good point.
MONICA: It was about sex and that’s it.
LEAH: Yeah. So, how did you discover masturbation as a pleasure opportunity?
MONICA: So, I was a dorm student at the academy, at St. Johnsbury Academy at the time. And one of my dorm proctors actually gave me a book. I’d have to look back in the archives to remember exactly what book it was, but it was something about the pleasure of self-love.
Because she knew I was having sex and I think she just had a hunch, she knew me really well. She had a hunch that something was off in my sexual relationships and she said to me, “I think you should just spend some time with this book.” And I remember at the time, I was like, “Okay, what is this? What do you mean I should spend time thinking about self-pleasure?” And it only took me the first 20 pages of reading it before I was like, whoa. I’ve been doing this all wrong.
LEAH: What an incredible gift for her to see you and understand you and for her to be brave enough to do that with a student where that could put her into some jeopardy.
MONICA: 100%. And I remember her saying to me, she said, “You can’t tell anyone I’m giving you this book.” And it was clear to me that it was something that she was passing along to me because she cared about me and she wanted me to realize something. She couldn’t sit down and face to face just bluntly say to me, “Hey, do you know what masturbation is? Yada, yada, yada.” That’s the goal. One day, those conversations can actually happen open and freely, but at the time, it was secretive.
LEAH: Yeah. So, okay, let’s back up to your first sexual experiences. How and when did those begin for you?
MONICA: I would say I was engaging in foreplay as early as middle school and I lost my virginity when I was a freshman in high school and it was a pretty shitty experience. Yeah, it was pretty rough. It was one of those situations where I felt very confused. I was in a lot of pain. It happened really quickly. Again, I was a dorm student, so it was like we were doing it sneakily. And again, there was a time frame. And I didn’t know what was happening really. It was very uncomfortable, self-conscious. I was doing it for other people, not for myself. It was confusing. It was very, very confusing.
LEAH: Were you doing it because you wanted to or were you doing it because you thought it was expected of you or something else?
MONICA: Definitely because I thought it was expected of me, for sure. And one of my later relationships, I had been dating somebody for 3+ years and we were very serious and I stopped having a sexual attraction to him. And I remember asking my mom about this and my mom saying to me, “Sometimes, you have to just suck it up and please the man.” So, I grew up in that kind of a narrative that women are here to please men sexually and that’s a part of my job as a woman.
LEAH: So, I’m going to ask you about something and you’re welcome to say, “I don’t want to talk about that.”
LEAH: I know that you went through a pretty severe eating disorder very young. And I’m curious if this idea of how you present to the world was part of that eating disorder because if I recall, you started at 8 years old.
MONICA: Yeah, 8 years old, for sure. Yup. I think that it’s all connected. I think it’s all very, very connected. This idea and this narrative that I ended up playing into and falling into of this idea that my duty is to serve other people and my worth is based on other people’s perception of my outer appearances of what I put on.
And I think that sexuality and sex is deeply, deeply related to that in terms of attraction, in terms of what foot you’re putting forward, how you’re showing up, who is looking at you. I think that my earliest memories of sexuality are definitely influenced and definitely have roots in relationship to my relationship to my body in the eating disorder that I had when I was younger, for sure.
LEAH: God, I have so many questions. So, those boys, the first boy you slept with in high school, the boys from middle school, were they people who you were actually interested in? Did you want to be interacting with them in that way?
MONICA: There was definitely a base of attraction there. However, I also think that I suffered from major abandonment and attachment issues as a young child and I think that I had more than emotional need that I was trying to fulfill without even knowing it where the sexuality and that kind of stuff just came along with it, so to speak or so I thought, as an obligation to feel like, okay, if I’m going to be loved, if I want to be endlessly unconditionally loved, I need to find a man to have sex with who I will please in exchange for that kind of love almost.
LEAH: Yeah. So, in middle school, you’re having touching, kissing, I assume. And there’s some attraction there. How did that begin? Did you initiate it? Did they initiate it?
MONICA: Always initiated by the men. Always, every time.
LEAH: And were there any times when somebody asked and you said no or did you always say yes?
MONICA: There was one time where somebody didn’t ask, but I said no. And actually, this is a crazy one. I didn’t know that I had been violated until it had to have been close to 10 years ago and the guy actually reached out to me when the Me Too blew up and he wrote me a message. And he said, “Hey, I just want to say I’m incredibly sorry for what happened in the way that I treated you and yada, yada, yada.”
And I remember reading this message and being like, what is he talking about? I had completely blocked out in my mind this memory and it wasn’t until I really sat with the message and I was like, hold on a moment. Yeah, now I remember, we were in the curtains. It was some field trip and he started to put his hands down my pants and I had said no. And then, he kept going and I let it happen and I didn’t think anything of it so much so that I didn’t even recognize that that was a form of violation of my body.
LEAH: Wow. I’m really interested in this because I’ve had a couple of people with histories of significant disordered eating and it seems like there’s frequently this disconnect when it comes to sexuality or at least early sexuality and it makes so much sense to me. And I’m just so fascinated by it because it’s like the eating disorder you’re working so hard to control your body, that is your means of control, I imagine, I have no clinical knowledge or experience of this, but that you’re working so hard to control your body that you almost see your body as something separate from you. And then, that disconnection continues when you move into sex.
MONICA: Yes, entirely. I remember having many sexual experiences that were almost a bit out of body. That’s very typical of sexual assault experiences. And it really wasn’t until the past 2 years of my life or 3 years now where once I started my whole journey with Wet Hairy Women that I really started developing a greater understanding and relationship to my body and sexuality. But for the longest time, it was deeply, deeply disconnected in that way and I would think that it was my fault.
LEAH: Yeah, absolutely. Once you started masturbating and having pleasure, did that change your relationships and the sex you were having with other people?
MONICA: So, here’s the interesting part is that although I had discovered what was pleasurable for me, I then entered this whole another level of complicated areas within sex where now, I had to learn how to communicate that. And I didn’t. I didn’t know that it was okay to communicate that. I didn’t know that it was helpful or that it was acceptable to communicate that or important. I just thought that I had discovered about my body and that was for me.
LEAH: So, to be fair, there’s no reason you should have known how to communicate that because we don’t teach that to anybody.
LEAH: So, it sounds like you continued having unsatisfying non-pleasurable sexual experiences with other people, even though you were able to have pleasurable sexual experiences with yourself.
LEAH: Yeah. Living in a dorm and masturbating, fuck, that was always so weird and uncomfortable.
MONICA: Yup. That’s the least of it, for sure, very uncomfortable, very awkward, very much like how do I get this done as quickly as possible?
LEAH: And I went through the same dorm program you did. And so, for my first 2 years, freshman and sophomore year, I was in rooms with other people. And then, junior and senior year, I was in singles. And so, that gave me a little more freedom because I didn’t have to worry about waking up my roommates. But then, in college, I went back to living with other people and I was like, fuck. How do I this again?
MONICA: Man, yup, exactly.
LEAH: Yeah. So, how did things change? Did things change when you went to college?
MONICA: Things became more pleasurable in college. I became a little bit more comfortable exploring what I liked in sex. That being said, I still was not confident enough or comfortable expressing to any of my partners what my specific needs were and what my dream sexual fantasies were. Even though I had quite a deep level of intimacy with partners in college, I didn’t know how to navigate it. I didn’t know how to navigate it.
LEAH: And we should also mention that you’re a dancer. And so, that’s a whole another level of complexity relationship with your body.
MONICA: 100%. I would say that while being a dancer, I feel much more connected to sensations and physicality than the average human being because that’s what I practice. And yet, I think that’s the part that blows my mind is that I had to dive into a really deep personal practice of research to really start to develop a deeper understanding of sexual pleasure in my body.
LEAH: Can you talk more about that?
MONICA: Yeah. So, I would say that when I started Wet Hairy Women, I dove into what I was uncomfortable with in my body through art and through movement. I started processing these ideas and things that for so long had lived in my body, these traumas, and I started to release them and let go of them through movement explorations. And they started out happening in the bathtub, actually during COVID, which is interesting because the bathtub is a place where we, as children, grow up cleansing ourselves.
LEAH: It’s also where some of us discover masturbation.
MONICA: Yes, 100%. Yeah, exactly. And it wasn’t until I started exploring more topics surrounding shame in relationship to my body that I then started exploring shame within sexuality within my body and why is it that I feel a shame after I masturbate? Where is that feeling coming from and how can I explore my relationship that I have with shame in relationship to my body?
It felt like a triangle of a relationship in a way where I was really poking at shame in my body and playing around with those two things. Okay, why is that coming up? When does it come up? How does that come up? And it just started through acknowledgement and holding space for that shame and recognizing that it was there, so then, I could eventually take the step to let go of it and to release it.
LEAH: I think there are going to be a lot of people who listen to this and think that sounds incredible. What does that even mean?
LEAH: So, when you say that you explored it, was there an intellectual process that went with that or was it entirely a physical process for you?
MONICA: It was a combination. Most of it was a physical process. The intellectual aspect would come in through journalling. I recorded all of my research that I did. So, I have random footage of me masturbating in a bathtub. It would be a 2-hour long exploration and I’d start dancing. And then, I would masturbate at one point. And then, I would do random stuff and I was interested in bodily fluids. So, I would pee in the bathtub and have all this on film.
And I would go back through and watch it. And I had this huge sheet of paper that I would record all of my observations on anything that was significant that I would write down on it and a huge word that kept coming up was shame. And I had this huge bubble around the word shame. And then, I would draw these little sticks coming out of them with different stories, different images that would come up for me in relationship to that.
And I would then sometimes take those stories with me into the bathtub when I would do my next research and not so much use them literally, but tap into that emotional space of what is that triggering? What is that pinpointing in me emotionally and how do I move through that in my body?
All emotional sensations I believe that we can actually pinpoint in our bodies and we can feel where things happen and where memories are stored in the body. And I would start by just listening to my body and where it would take me and feel like, wow, that’s really, really located deep in my sternum. And it’s really tight and it almost comes up my throat. And what movement can I use with my body to express that? And then, move through that and ultimately, as a result of that, what would happen is it would release.
LEAH: That’s incredible.
LEAH: Are you aching to explore new vistas of your sexuality? Do you hear me talk about concepts on this show and think, “It makes sense, but I need help applying it to my situation?” That’s where personalized sex and intimacy coaching comes in. When you work with me, I promise to help you feel safe exploring your sexuality.
Together, we’ll look at your needs and desires without judgment and help you figure out how to fulfill them. There’s no single answer that’s right for everyone. So, I’m going to help you discover what’s right for you and we’ll go at your pace. That’s the pace that respects your emotional needs, your boundaries, and your nervous system because going too fast can send you into shutdown while going too slow can be infuriating. The goal is to find what’s right for you.
I work with clients who are motivated to explore many different areas of sexuality including things like expressing your sexual desires to current or future partners, exploring if you might be queer, challenging body image insecurity in sexual relationships, dipping your toes into BDSM or consensual non-monogamy, learning to date after a long time after the dating pool, exploring sexuality for later in life virgins, and so much more. I want you to have a deeply fulfilling intimate life. And together, we can help you get there. For more information and to schedule your free no obligation discovery call, visit www.leahcarey.com/coaching. That’s www.leahcarey.com/coaching.
LEAH: Were you working with a therapist through this or was this big piece of paper your therapist?
MONICA: The big piece of paper was my therapist, yeah.
LEAH: Wow, that’s really remarkable. So, you’ve mentioned Wet Hairy Women several times and we haven’t actually talked about what that is. So, let’s pull out the chronological story and talk about that for a minute, and then we can go back.
MONICA: Yeah. So, Wet Hairy Women was a project that I started right when COVID started. I had broken my hand dancing and couldn’t shave my legs because I had a broken hand and went back to Tennessee at the start of COVID to live with my mom. And one of the first things that she said to me was like, “Girl, you got to shave those legs and those armpits.” And body hair had always been a really, really big insecurity of mine. And actually, what I eventually realized was that body hair I think was actually what triggered a lot of my eating disorder earlier on.
LEAH: Can you talk more about that connection?
MONICA: Yeah. So, I was thinking about what my earliest memories were of body shaming. How old was I and what was the earliest memory I could possibly think of when I felt ashamed of my body? And I realized I was 5 years old and I was at summer camp. And I can picture exactly where I was sitting on the bleachers in sports camp and a boy looked over at me and said, “Ew, your arms are hairier than my dad’s. You must be a gorilla.”
LEAH: Oh my god. And you said you were 5?
MONICA: I was 5 years old. And I didn’t realize that that was significant, but it wasn’t until I started piecing things together that I was like, wow, actually all of my bodily insecurities really, really started from that one comment going way back to just my body hair. I’m a pale girl. I’ve got white skin and really dark thick hair, Hungarian hair.
MONICA: And I was very aware from a very young age that I should socially feel uncomfortable about my body because of my body hair.
LEAH: Wow. So, you had that comment from your mom about, “Girl, you got to start shaving.” And was it an immediate thing that you were like, fuck that, or did it take some time for that rebellious piece to come out?
MONICA: No. The rebellion in me immediately was like, “You said what?”
MONICA: I was like, hold on a moment. And actually, at the time, I had just started reading Marina Abramović’s autobiography and she is one of the matriarchs of performance art. And she says, “Expose what you’re most ashamed of.” And I read that quote and I was like, maybe I can do something with this.
And then, I had this platform where I was able to explore projects. And so, I was like, why don’t I dive into this some more? And I was diving into my work growing out my body hair. It had been maybe three weeks of not shaving and I thought it was the biggest deal in the world.
LEAH: And to you, at that moment, it was.
MONICA: Yes, entirely. It’s crazy. I look back on stuff and it was like, wow, it really was significant to me. Now, granted for context, I was someone who grew up in high school would have somebody shave my back peach fuzz if I was going to wear a backless anything. I would bleach my arms. I was 10 years old when my mom introduced me to bleaching my mustache or getting it waxed and 8 years old when I started shaving my legs.
So, hair removal had been a very big, big part of me and presenting my body in the most desirable way to other people is what I thought I was doing. So, yeah, when I started exploring this, it was a lot of unraveling and layers and layers of just shit that had built up and narratives in my head that I was slowly starting to chip away at. And I was sharing a lot of it on social media and I was getting a lot of really, really amazing feedback from other people and women and men and people in general.
And then, I decided, I was like, this is catching momentum. I want to go deeper with this and I decided to keep growing things out. And I ended up leading then my first group of 18 women through growing out their body hair for the first time and things took off from there. And this past November, I had a campaign of 50+ people who joined me in growing out their body hair for the month of November and making art about it. And since then, it’s been for me now since last November, I have gone completely, by completely, I mean face included, everything, no hair altering whatsoever since last November.
LEAH: I remember when you put up a post saying, “I’m letting my mustache grow.” And I think I was surprised because at that moment, I thought you had let everything go. And so, I’m curious what was that holdover? I think I can probably guess, but I want to hear it in your words. What was the holdover with the mustache and how did you break through that?
MONICA: It’s interesting because everything happened gradually. I can remember 2 summers ago was the first summer that I didn’t shave my legs and that was a big step too. First, it was the armpits, then it was the legs, then it was the bikini line. And then, I was pretty much comfortable with everything except for my facial hair.
And I think that that directly stems and connects to societal expectations and norms surrounding femininity. And I felt that, God forbid, if I let my mustache grow or my mole hair grow that people would think that either I’m not taking care of myself or people would think that I identify as a man. I was really scared of that. I think that was the biggest fear was being misgendered. And I do get misgendered quite frequently. I get asked. And I’ll get stopped on the streets sometimes and people will ask me, “Are you a man or a woman?”
LEAH: Wow. First of all, ballsy.
LEAH: But second of all, how does that feel to you when it happens?
MONICA: So, at first, it was really, really hurtful. At first, I had this internalized shame around how could you think that I’m a man or how could you not know that I’m a woman? How could you mistake for this? And then, I started to realize that some of that shame was stemming from internalized transphobia that I hadn’t even realized was there in my own discomfort surrounding trans people. And it wasn’t until I started to chip away at that that I started to realize that it doesn’t really matter to me if somebody’s going to misgender me or if somebody thinks that I’m trans or if somebody thinks that I’m this or that as long as I know where I stand. And some days, I don’t.
MONICA: Some days, I don’t, but at the end of the day, it came down to I was afraid of what other people’s perceptions of me were specifically with the mustache. It was a huge deal and I remember in November when I let it grow and I thought just the tiniest bit of it was, wow, I have a mustache and it’s still growing months later. I look in the mirror and I’m like, whoa. This baby is growing longer and longer. Let me see what will happen here. I don’t know.
MONICA: I’m curious about my body. I’m learning about it.
LEAH: Yeah. So, it was just about a year ago that I shaved my head and I had plenty of concerns about it, but none of those concerns involved gender, being misgendered or anything. But then, I noticed that without even thinking about it, any time I was going out, still COVID time, so I wasn’t going out that much, but any time I went out, I was choosing my most feminizing clothes because I never realized how attached I am to appearing feminine.
I’ve lived with that now for a year. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. It is how I feel inside. I have no question that I am female. But I didn’t realize how attached I was to the outward performance of that, yeah.
MONICA: Entirely, yeah. The performance of femininity. One of my colleagues once beautifully said that there’s this currency of femininity. It’s like how we’re perceived ranks up our points of, okay, they’re very, very feminine and what is that scale and how that impacts and sits within society.
LEAH: I remember you posting about kids asking you about your mustache. Do tell.
MONICA: Yes. Oh my goodness. It is my favorite thing when kids ask me about my mustache and it happens quite frequently because I caretake for an 8-year-old and a 5-year-old girl. And yeah, that has been the most beautiful, beautiful blessing is to be on this journey also with them, which I’ll get into a second, but kids have asked me and they continue to ask me.
Kids are so open. They’ll come right up to me and I’ve been asked, “Are you a boy or a girl?” And I explain, “I’m a girl. Why? Why do you ask?” And they’ll say, “But you have a mustache,” is what it always comes back to. It doesn’t come back to the legs or the armpit hair. It comes back to the mustache to which then I explain. I say, “Guess what? Everybody grows hair and some people have more hair than others. And just because I’m a girl doesn’t mean I can’t have a mustache and it’s all about choice and you have a choice to remove it or not to remove it on your body and I choose to keep my hair.”
LEAH: I love that so much.
MONICA: it’s so much fun. And it’s a lot more fun than when I get grown adults who ask me about it. That’s a little bit of a different conversation. It’s similar, but it’s a little bit different. But with the kids, I know they’re asking out of genuine curiosity. And what’s really cool is to see them take it and think about it and be like, “Okay, yeah. That makes sense.”
And the girls that I sit for when I first started growing out my mustache, they were a little bit scared of it, especially the 5-year-old. She was like, “I don’t like it. I don’t like your armpit hair. I don’t want to see it. I don’t want to touch it.” She was afraid there were monsters in my armpits. Yeah.
MONICA: But I’m very open with my body. I let them touch it. I let them see it. And now, it’s their favorite thing to do is to play with my body hair. Yeah. And the 8-year-old is now like, “I want to be hairy when I grow up.” Yeah. And she talks about how she has a mustache coming in. And it’s more than anything, it gives me hope. It gives me hope for the future.
LEAH: Oh my god. I love that so much. I truly believe that I work with a lot of adult women and it is deeply important to me to do that work with them and it’s always in the back of my mind that these are the people who have or at some point will probably have children. And the work that we do together is as much for their children as it is for them because when the adults move into a healthier space, we without thinking transmit that to our kids. And then, our kids grow up with those assumptions that this is okay. This is normal. I don’t need to be ashamed.
MONICA: Exactly. Removing the shame in a healthy way that they can grow up with love for themselves and their bodies as opposed to shame. And I think the craziest thing for me when I think about it in the grand scheme of things is that most women actually don’t know what their bodies look like in its most natural state. We don’t have enough examples of that. And so, people, of course, are going to look and turn when they see a woman with a mustache because it’s surprising to them. But the reality is that it’s pretty normal.
LEAH: Yeah. I certainly remember my mom bleaching her mustache fairly frequently. I think I am pretty lucky. That is a judgmental word. I have a few hairs in my lip area.
LEAH: But I don’t have to think about it too much. But yeah, I do remember that being a big thing for her. A stressful thing, especially when she was going to visit her parents because her parents was the performance of femininity was very important. And so, yeah, that was an extreme stressor for her.
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LEAH: Okay. So, we have gone far down the rabbit hole on body hair.
LEAH: So, now let’s jump back into the chronology. When last we spoke, you were in college.
LEAH: And you were having some sexual experiences that were maybe be a little bit better, but maybe still not super pleasurable? Do I understand that correctly?
LEAH: So, when did you start having sexual experiences that were pleasurable? And I think probably the corollary to that is when did you learn to start speaking up for what you wanted?
MONICA: 3 years ago, right after the protests around George Floyd and the BLM movement was happening, I met a man. And the first time we had sex, he asked me, he said, “What do you like?” And I remember freaking out and in bed being like, “What do you mean what do I like? Why would you ask me a question when we’re in bed? Just go with it. Just feel my body. Just listen.” And he was like, “No, what do you like?” And I was very defensive about the question.
But it didn’t leave me. I thought about it a lot and it wasn’t until that relationship really opened me up to understanding, how I can ask for what I need and that sex, especially heteronormative sex, there can be moments and times where it’s focused on solely the woman’s pleasure and that that’s actually incredibly important and that’s skipped over in porn, in everything else that we’ve ever seen. It’s like, no, I can’t orgasm off of just having your dick inside of me. And that’s pretty normal.
LEAH: That whole freakout that you just described of him asking you what you want and you being like, “You’re not supposed to ask me that, you’re just supposed to feel it out,” is so incredibly common. The whole way that that played out for you, so common. And the metaphor that I use for that is you would not walk into a restaurant and they hand you a menu and when the waiter comes and says, “What would you like?” You just glance at the menu, but don’t actually tell them anything, and then expect them to bring you the right thing from the kitchen.
MONICA: It’s true, yeah.
LEAH: No, you say, “I want the steak medium rare. I want the big potato with the sour cream, no chives. I want this kind of drink done this way.” You’re super specific.
MONICA: Yeah. And I would say I’m still on this journey of finding my voice in sexual situations.
LEAH: Yeah. By the way, so am I.
MONICA: Yeah. And it’s hard. It’s fucking hard, especially when we’ve had years and years of thinking that that’s not okay to do. There’s a level of embarrassment. It’s another unpacking, unlearning. But it wasn’t until this relationship that I think I really discovered my capacity for pleasure. And ever since then, I’ve been able to start the process for the most part around vocalizing what I desire in bed.
LEAH: Yeah. So, before we started recording, you told me that you identify as bisexual.
LEAH: So, when did that begin to make itself know to you?
MONICA: So, my roommate is like my sister and she is bisexual as well. And for the longest time, she was always like, “Everybody’s gay. Just everybody is gay. That’s my theory. That’s how it is. People just don’t know it.” And for the longest time, I was like, “No, that’s not true. I am straight as a nail. I am straight as a sword. I can tell you that for a fact.: And I resisted it and I was super uncomfortable whenever somebody would even suggest the idea of me being open to other women. And it was funny because a lot of other people saw it in me before I saw it in myself.
LEAH: Leah looking at 18-year-old Monica and being like, yeah.
MONICA: it’s so funny too because, yeah, I just didn’t know. And what happened was as I’ve been doing with I think the majority of everything in my life that I thought I knew was true, taking a deeper look at it and I started to ask myself, I do find some women to be attractive and I just have a very specific type. It would have to be this kind of a woman and that’s how it stated.
And then, I started to open that up a little bit more and realized that again, a lot of my insecurities around my sexual identity were actually in denial of my sexual identity was stemming from years of thinking that that wasn’t okay. Growing up in a household where the huge gossip was that so and so’s sister is gay and it’s a big deal. And so, I think that that kind of environment instilled this narrative in my head that I was straight when really there’s a lot more I think, as human beings, flexibility in our sexuality than we allow for than society allows for.
LEAH: So, have you acted on it?
MONICA: I have indeed.
MONICA: So, my first sexual encounter with a woman I met her on Hinge. We went on a date in Brooklyn. We hit it off. It was amazing. And I didn’t tell her. She thought I was a lesbian and I didn’t tell her that she was my first at all because I was too scared. I was like, she won’t want to be with me. And push comes to shove, we end up sleeping together. And I’m sure she, for sure, knew that it was my first time.
MONICA: Because I had no idea what the fuck I was doing. You think it’s going to be easier because it’s your same body type, but it’s not.
LEAH: That is such a fucking lie.
MONICA: Such a lie, exactly. Yeah, no, it was confusing as ever. But I remember waking up the next morning and calling up my cousin who’s gay and being like, “Sarah, I’m gay.”
MONICA: And she was like, “I know, Monica. I know. We’ve all known this.”
LEAH: So, now you’ve moved back to the center dating both men and women?
MONICA: Yeah, dating both men and women. I would say I’m more actively interested in dating women right now. However, yeah, I’m pretty open. And yeah, I think I’m also really interested in androgyny as well and this idea of gender fluidity and there’s something that’s really attractive to me there too.
LEAH: That was actually the next question I was going to ask you because people use bisexual to mean different things. There are some people who use it to mean I’m interested in men and women. And there are some people like me who use it to mean people whose bodies look like mine and people who don’t, which includes the full gender spectrum.
LEAH: And so, do you know which one of those you fall into?
MONICA: Yeah. For me, it’s definitely not about the gender binary. I would say bisexuality to me means everything in between too. And there’s been moments where I’ve had to again, some more thought deconstruction of my own biases around attraction and what that means and where that developed and really questioning.
Okay, one thing I realized which is interesting is I started watching more queer porn. And when I started watching more queer porn, it opened up this portal to me that I was like, I’m not not attracted to that. That is attractive actually. I’m into that too, which for the longest time, I was like, no, I’m not into that. Of course not. But I think learning and the more I learn and the more I discover, the more open I become.
LEAH: You mentioned that you’re interested in gender fluidity. Does that mean you’re interested in exploring with other people who are fluid or that you are also interested in exploring that yourself?
MONICA: I would say I’m definitely interested in other people who are exploring that. So, I do use she/they pronouns. And it has been a journey in and of itself for me where I definitely identify as a woman and I am female. However, I think with identity in general is super complicated and it always is.
And the deeper I dive into my relationship with womanhood, the more I also realize that there’s a capacity there for me to explore my identity within gender fluidity on the spectrum in the sense that I do have masculine traits and features that naturally appear on my body when I let them. About a year ago, I stopped taking birth control and I had been on birth control since I got my period when I was 14. Yeah, on the pill that entire time. And I think I’ve definitely grown more hair on my body since stopping taking birth control with those hormones as well.
LEAH: That’s fascinating.
MONICA: Yeah. And so, these more masculine traits are coming out of me, which at first, was really difficult to grapple with especially in relationship to identity and I was very stuck on trying to prove to society that being a woman could also mean that I have masculine traits, which is true. And I think there’s also space there for maybe there is something in between. Maybe there are some days where I wake up and I look in the mirror and I don’t quite feel like she/her makes sense to me. Granted, I definitely fall more heavily into that side of things. I’m discovering and I’m learning.
LEAH: Yeah. I think what is so fascinating to me about watching you dance now versus watching you dance 8 years ago and I hope that I’ll be able to say this well.
LEAH: I’m not really sure I have the words for this, but 8 years ago, you were all about extension. It’s the typical dancerly way to be very much about making yourself as visible I think as possible. Whereas I watch your videos now of you dancing and this is where I’m afraid I might not have exactly the right words. It’s like for sure, it’s grungier. And I don’t mean that in how you toilet yourself.
LEAH: I just mean it’s so very internal. And so, to hear you talk about that it’s been a way for you to process out and really shift your internal attitudes and biases about so many things, that makes so much sense to me because it really does feel like all of this stuff is coming out from inside of you. Does that make sense?
MONICA: 100% that makes sense. And I feel that. I really deeply resonate with that and feel that. When I watch videos of myself dancing, it’s not the pretty presentable aspect of performance by any stretch of the means. I would say it’s now the opposite. It’s like this roar, if I could give it a sound, that would be the sound.
MONICA: And it feels like that. It feels like it’s something on the inside of me that’s coming out, yeah.
LEAH: Thank you for letting us get to participate in that with you.
MONICA: Of course. Thank you.
LEAH: is there a question or concern that you have about sex?
MONICA: Actually, yes. What do you do when you are engaging with someone sexually and you’re in the midst of being in the moment and it’s not quite going in the direction that you want it to or it doesn’t feel good? I think in the past, I get stuck in those moments and I just let it happen. And then, I’m like, okay, I’ll talk about it to them next time. But I’m still trying to figure that out. What do you do?
LEAH: Yeah. That’s a great question. And that stuck or freeze feeling is incredibly common. I think more women than not have that response because it goes against all of that training we receive as kids about be pretty and be quiet and take care of the other person’s needs and all of that.
The best way to get back in touch with yourself because that’s really what’s happening, you’re not able to say anything because you’ve lost touch with yourself. There’s some level of dissociation is probably a really strong word for this, but you’re not in touch with that part of you that has your voice. Yeah.
So, the first thing to do is to put your hand on the other person’s skin if you’re not naked yet. I always recommend that the touch be skin-to-skin because that really helps to coregulate the nervous systems of both partners, put your hand on their skin and say, “Can we pause for a second?” Whatever’s true for you, “I’m feeling a little overwhelmed in the moment or I just need to breathe for a second,” whatever feels comfortable for you to say. But put your hand on them, get their buy-in to you taking a breath, first of all. If they don’t give you your buy-in, walk out the fucking door and never see them again.
LEAH: And let’s assume that they’re a good partner and that they’re like, “Cool. What do you really need?” Do you need to go to the bathroom? Just to get out of that space for a minute, so you can recenter. Do you need a glass of water? Just so that you can have that physical sensation or again, it just gives you a minute to think. Whatever is it that you need to come back in touch with your body is the thing to do. And it’s a really good idea to think about this in advance so that you don’t have to then get caught up in the moment thinking, what am I going to ask?
I had one absolutely beautiful partner. It was actually somebody who I only saw a few times, but it was an amazing experience. And this happened. I actually started crying. So, he knew something was wrong. And he said, “What do you need?” And I said, “I need to take a break for a minute.” And he said, “Okay, do you want some space or do you want me to hold you?” And I was fucking devastated by the question because my expectation that he was going to reject me outright and not only did he not reject me, but he offered me some options about whether touch was going to be supportive or upsetting to me in that moment. I chose cuddling because I pretty much always choose cuddling.
LEAH: But again, think about do you want touch? Do you want to not touch for a while? Okay. So, all of that is what is going on in the moment. And then, once you feel like you’re settling back down, you can either choose to end the interaction because you’re not having the experience you want to have or you can go back into it and say, “Can we try something different?” Because you’ve broken that particular moment, so you don’t have to keep going down that road. Okay.
So, that’s new person or someone who you haven’t had a whole lot of conversations with about the sex you want to have. Other option, I highly recommend this. Before you start taking your clothes off, have a conversation with them. And this is the STARS talk, which people who listen to the show regularly will know that I talk about and I have posted some examples of other people having STARS talks.
But for you, one of the things I would recommend that you do during your pre-sex conversation is say, “Sometimes, I get in a situation where I’m not exactly comfortable, but I don’t know how to get out of it.” And start the conversation there. And tell them, “When that happens for me, here’s the signal that I’m going to use to let you know that I need a little break,” so that then you set them up to know that this is a thing that sometimes happens to you. They also know that it’s not about them, that this is a thing that happens to you and that you are now working on a system to help you break that pattern. Does that make sense? Does that bring up any questions?
MONICA: That makes a lot of sense in the sense of too just being able to communicate with a partner and say, “This is what has happened to me in the past. This is something that is a part of something that I’m working through and navigating.” That’s incredibly, incredibly helpful. Yeah.
LEAH: Good, I’m glad.
MONICA: Thank you.
LEAH: Absolutely. I’m glad you asked. Thank you because I think that’s something a lot, a lot, a lot of people deal with.
LEAH: And now, it’s time for the lowdown, the things we’re dying to know but would usually be too polite to ask any good girl.
LEAH: Do you have sex during your period?
MONICA: Yes, for sure. I think sex on my period, it actually feels better and more sensitive. I love it.
LEAH: That’s awesome. What’s the approximate number of sex partners you’ve had?
MONICA: I lost count. Probably in the 20s somewhere, maybe 30s? Maybe?
LEAH: Okay. There’s no shame. No matter what your number is.
LEAH: We’ve already talked about this, but how old were you when you began masturbating?
MONICA: So, this is actually interesting, but I didn’t know it was masturbating at the time. But when I was 7 years old, I remember being in gymnastics and the bar, I would get up on the bar and I was having this profound experience of euphoria whenever I rubbed the upper part of my vagina on the bar. And so, I loved bars in gymnastics because of that. I thought it was transporting me into another world.
LEAH: Wow, that’s amazing. I love it.
LEAH: Have you ever sex with someone of a different racial identity than your own?
MONICA: Yes. Most my sexual partners actually.
LEAH: Really? That’s interesting. By choice or by circumstance?
MONICA: By choice, yeah.
LEAH: What’s your favorite sex toy?
MONICA: I have a LELO. It’s nice and slim. It’s a pretty standard vibrator, but it’s my favorite because it has a profound number of different frequencies of vibration. So, I love the variety in that thing. It’s my favorite.
LEAH: That’s amazing.
LEAH: What’s your favorite sex position?
MONICA: I like to be on the bottom. I like standard. I really enjoy that.
LEAH: So, standard missionary?
MONICA: Yeah, standard missionary.
LEAH: Do you prefer to initiate or for your partner to initiate in the bedroom?
MONICA: Partner to initiate, for sure.
LEAH: That’s interesting. Given all the work that you’ve been doing to deconstruct the gender thing, it’s really interesting that that’s your preference in your bedroom. Nothing wrong with it.
MONICA: I know. It gets people. It really does get people because, exactly, given the work that I do, especially people expect the opposite. But for some reason, I think a part of Wet Hairy Women that I haven’t really truly expanded on enough yet and it’s the next level of my own personal working development within that topic is to dive into how these narratives and how I deconstructed these things in most aspects of my life, but now to take into the bedroom as well because that’s a whole another level of stripping things down and clearing things out.
LEAH: I smell another coworking project together if you’re ever interested.
MONICA: For sure, you bet you.
LEAH: Are you generally more active or more passive during lovemaking?
MONICA: I would say I’m more active.
LEAH: Do you prefer clit stimulation or penetration?
MONICA: Clit stimulation, for sure.
LEAH: Do you enjoy g-spot stimulation?
LEAH: Do you enjoy having your breasts played with?
LEAH: I think I need to add a question here. Do you enjoy having your hair played with?
MONICA: Yes. I really do actually. I think my hair has played a huge role in my sex life in general.
LEAH: And I assume we’re not talking just about your head hair?
LEAH: All of your body hair.
MONICA: All of the body hair, yeah. No, there’s a whole another level of sensation that can be activated when you have hair in different areas of your body, especially pubic hair.
LEAH: I recently discovered the joy of having pubic hair played with and it really is for me a wonderful sensation.
MONICA: Yeah, it’s really soothing too.
LEAH: Do you prefer the orgasm from masturbating or from sex with another person?
MONICA: It’s a hard one. I would say probably right now, I still prefer orgasms from masturbating. However, it’s a goal of mine to get to a place where I am confident and comfortable enough sexually to develop a relationship with a partner where I’m able to advocate for what I need and what I desire and what I want and what I’m interested in to the point where then that could become equally as pleasurable.
LEAH: Do you orgasm with partners?
MONICA: I would say about 50% of the time.
LEAH: Yeah. What’s your favorite thing to do to a partner during sexual play?
MONICA: I love to really slowly kiss my partner all over their body and worship their body energetically.
LEAH: Nice. What kind of touch do you enjoy receiving the most?
MONICA: I enjoy very slow, sensual, careful, and intentional touch.
LEAH: How do you feel about porn?
MONICA: I watch it. I love it.
MONICA: I enjoy porn. That being said, I am not a big fan like I can’t do the stereotypical Pornhub porn. I can’t do that.
LEAH: So, where do you go for your porn?
MONICA: I go to a couple of different sites. I’ve done Bellissima, porn for women. That became my key search that I would do is porn for women.
MONICA: And since then, typically I’ll spend some time in it and I’ll do a little bit of research and I’ve started purchasing. I’ll purchase a movie or something like that.
LEAH: When you say purchase a movie, do you mean a more traditional movie that has great sex scenes in it or do you mean purchase porn?
MONICA: Purchase porn.
LEAH: Okay, cool.
MONICA: Yeah, because I’ve found that actually, the free porn sites typically don’t have the realistic versions of porn that I find to be actually attractive.
LEAH: And also, really, really, really good that you’re paying for your porn.
MONICA: Exactly. You’re supposed to pay for that stuff, yeah.
LEAH: What’s your ideal frequency of sex?
MONICA: Daily would be nice.
LEAH: Okay. So, here’s the hands on funniest question given our conversation thus far, do you have hair down there or are you bare?
MONICA: I, for sure, have hair down there. I have a galore of hair down there.
LEAH: And if I remember correctly, you have posted pictures of a bikini showing a natural hairline.
MONICA: Yeah, for sure. It’s actually one of my dreams is to have a billboard in New York City for Wet Hairy Women one day with a picture of a bunch of women just in whitey tighties with pubic hair coming out of there, on their bikini lines.
LEAH: Have you ever had a threesome or more?
MONICA: Yes, I have had a threesome. It was actually this past year was my first threesome and I loved it.
LEAH: Good. That reminds me. We never went back and talked about your relationship structures. Might have to happen another time.
LEAH: But I am really curious. Do you enjoy giving oral sex either to penises or vulvas?
MONICA: I prefer giving oral sex to vulvas. I’m not the biggest fan of giving oral sex to penises. It’s never really been a turn-on for me, which was actually one of the first indicators I think I ever had that I might possibly be bisexual and there might be more things for me to discover and think about there.
LEAH: When you do give a blowjob, do you swallow?
MONICA: I have. I don’t enjoy it. I don’t like it.
LEAH: You don’t have to. Just for the record, yeah. Do you enjoy receiving oral sex?
MONICA: I do. I think that it takes me more time to relax into my body in order to enjoy oral sex. I think that there’s a lot of self-conscious stuff that comes around oral in general, especially with women. The thoughts of what do I smell like? What do I taste like? All of those things that are very normal to have, but in order for me to actually enjoy the moment, I have to really be comfortable enough to not have those thoughts going through my mind.
LEAH: Yeah. How do you feel about ass play?
MONICA: I recently discovered that I’m really into it, yeah.
MONICA: It was a recent exploration that I was like, I am into this, okay.
LEAH: Giving, receiving, both?
LEAH: Do you have interest in giving?
MONICA: Maybe, yeah.
LEAH: What do you consider the “kinkiest” thing you enjoy with the understanding that everyone’s scale of kink is totally different?
MONICA: I recently explored tantric sex and it was the most pleasurable experience of my life. And also, pretty damn kinky.
MONICA: Yeah. This man did it through oral, so he was really, really into using his mouth everywhere on my body for tantric massage, for tantric stimulation, all of that stuff. And yeah, it was pretty remarkable.
LEAH: Awesome. Do you enjoy dirty talk during sexual encounters?
MONICA: Yes. I love dirty talk.
LEAH: Have you ever felt a sexual urge that confused you?
MONICA: Yeah. I have felt many sexual urges towards women. Initially, that was very confusing for me where I was mistaking that for something else. And also, I think another topic where that comes up is within just platonic friendships too differentiating when you’re just horny and when you actually are sexually attracted to somebody.
LEAH: We can have a longer conversation about that at some point.
LEAH: And in fact, when you come to Portland, I will take you to Sex Positive Portland, yeah.
MONICA: Yes, love it.
LEAH: Yes. And then, you will settle here in Portland because that’s what I did.
MONICA: I’m sure it probably might happen.
LEAH: Okay. Before I ask you these questions, I ask about favorite and least favorite parts of your body, but because you have an eating disorder background, do you want to answer those questions?
MONICA: Yeah, I’m cool with it. Thank you.
LEAH: Okay. All right. What is your favorite part of your body?
MONICA: Right now, my favorite part about my body is my body hair. Yeah, right now, it is. And what’s interesting is I almost said my mustache, which is also dually one of my least favorite parts of my body as well.
LEAH: So, would that be your answer to the question, what’s the least favorite part of your body?
LEAH: Yeah, I love that. I don’t have any particular attachment to any answer, but I really appreciate the self-knowledge it takes to recognize that something can be both your most and your least because you’re really working on pushing boundaries. Yeah.
MONICA: Thank you.
LEAH: Yeah. What is something about your current sex life that isn’t as satisfying as you’d like it to be?
MONICA: When engaging in heteronormative sex in particular, I think the most unsatisfying part that can be really frustrating is when things are falling into a very stereotypical image of what that sex is supposed to be like and it’s really unsatisfying and it’s frustrating and it’s difficult to navigate. Does that make sense?
LEAH: Absolutely, yeah. What belief did you have about sex as a child or teenager that you wish you could go back and correct her on now?
MONICA: I truly believed that a big purpose of sex was to please men. I truly, truly had that internalized and ingrained in me and I would give a lot to be able to go back and shift that narrative because I think it would open up my journey of sexuality and my journey of pleasure and I would be much further along the journey and the road. That being said, I’m grateful that I’m on the journey I’m on. And I know that it takes work and it takes time. So, I’m looking forward to continuing that journey.
LEAH: And you probably wouldn’t have the passion that you have now were it not for that. Not that that excuses any of the things that were said to you or the social constructs and all of that, but you wouldn’t be so focused on it if you didn’t have those issues.
MONICA: That’s very, very true.
LEAH: Monica, it has been an incredible joy to reconnect with you and to have this conversation. Thank you so much.
MONICA: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me and, oh my goodness, it’s a dream to reconnect. What a joy. And thank you for listening and for taking the time to hear me and to ask.
LEAH: Absolutely. I said this before. I’m so freaking proud of you.
MONICA: Thank you. It means the world to me. It truly does.
LEAH: That’s it for today. Before we go, I want to remind you that the things you may have heard about your sexuality aren’t true. You are worthy. You are desirable. You are not broken. As a sex and intimacy coach, I will guide you in embracing the sexuality that is innately yours, no matter what it looks like.
To set up your free discovery call, go to www.leahcarey.com/coaching. If you have questions or comments about anything you’ve heard on the show, call and leave a message at 720-GOOD-SEX. Full show notes and transcripts for this episode are at www.goodgirlstalk.com. And you can follow me @goodgirlstalk on the socials for more sex positive content. If you’re enjoying this show, please take a moment to leave a 5-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or if you’re using another podcast app, go to www.ratethispodcast.com/goodgirls.
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Good Girls Talk About Sex is produced by me, Leah Carey, and edited by Gretchen Kilby. I have additional administrative support from Lara O’Connor. Transcripts are produced by Jan Acielo. Until next time, here’s to your better sex life!
All archived Good Girls Talk About Sex audio extras are now available for FREE! They can be accessed at www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex.
I’ve done this because not everyone has the means to pay for access, and I know this additional material can be deeply important for some listeners. But creating this show isn’t free, so if you’d like to support the work I do, I am grateful for your contributions at www.patreon.com/goodgirlstalkaboutsex.
I donate 10% of all Patreon proceeds to ARC Southeast
Rate the pod – Leave a rating and review at www.ratethispodcast.com/goodgirls
Have a question or comment – Leave a voicemail for Leah at 720-GOOD-SEX (720-466-3739) – this is a voicemail-only line, so I promise you won’t have to talk to someone in person!
Be a guest on the show – I’d love to talk with you! Fill out the form at www.leahcarey.com/guest
Instagram – www.instagram.com/goodgirlstalk
Twitter – www.twitter.com/goodgirlstalk
YouTube – www.youtube.com/goodgirlstalk
Leah’s website – www.leahcarey.com
Podcast website – www.goodgirlstalk.com
Host / Producer – Leah Carey (email)
Audio Editor – Gretchen Kilby
Administrative Support – Lara O’Connor, Maria Franco
Music – Nazar Rybak
We publish episodes
EVERY OTHER THURSDAY